1176. There is no difficulty made about that?-No.

1177. Is it a common thing in Shetland for a man's wife to get such advances of money during his absence-Yes, they would get a small sum of money, but the merchant would prefer them to take goods.

[Page 24]

1178. If she comes for the money is she ever told to take it in goods; or is there any understanding that she is to take it in goods?-I cannot answer that, because I am not acquainted with what goes on while I am away. I can only speak to what has come within my own experience.

Lerwick, January 2, 1872, GILBERT GOODLAD, examined.

1179. You are a fisherman in Burra, and you hold land there under Messrs. Hay?-Yes.

1180. You have been present during the examination of the previous witnesses?-Yes.

1181. Do you agree with most of what Williamson and Smith have said?-Yes.

1182. Is it all correct?-Yes; all correct.

1183. You generally go to the Faroe fishing?-I do.

1184. How long may you be absent at that fishing?-It just depends upon the season: sometimes we may be away for perhaps four months. We are generally home once in the middle of the time. We are sometimes we may be away longer than four months, sometimes not so long ago.

1185. What merchants have you generally engaged with?-I have engaged with a great many merchants in Shetland.

1186. There has been no objection made to your going with any merchant you liked?-No.

1187. Messrs. Hay have not objected to that?-No. They might not have been requiring me when I was going, and therefore I could go where I liked.

1188. When you go there, how do you arrange for your family to be supplied during your absence?-The merchant supplies them during my absence.

1189. What merchant?-Whatever owner I am out for.

1190. When your wife wants supplies, does she go to his shop for them?-Yes.

1191. If she wants money, does she ask it from him too?-She may, but sometimes she has been refused it. They are not willing to give money. If they think we are doing well at the fishing, they will advance her a little money; but if they think we are not succeeding well, they will not give it, because they would think then that we might come to be in their debt.

1192. Is there any communication with the vessels when they are at the fishing?-Yes. Some of the vessels may go home and come back again, or an accident may occur on board of one of them, and she may go home and give an account of how the fishing is going on. They may also send letters from Faroe, by Denmark, to Shetland; so that there are several ways of communicating from there to here.

1193. Who are some of the parties with whom you have shipped for the Faroe fishing?-I have been out for Mr. Garriock in Reawick, Mr. Garriock in Lerwick, Mr. Leask, and Messrs. Hay.

1194. But, whoever you go out for, your wife generally goes to their shop for her supplies?-She is obliged to go there, if we have no other means to live on.

1195. Can you tell me one occasion on which she went and was refused money, or on which you have asked them to give her money and it has been refused?-I am not quite sure that there has been any occasion of that kind, because we know that if we are not fishing well, we need not ask for money.

1196. Have you been told that by any of the shopkeepers?-I have seen it, and experienced it.

1197. When, and how?-Even during the last season with the Faroe fishing, there were some of the merchants who would not make an advance to the people when they required it.

1198. Did they require to get an advance of money?-They might try to live on through the season without money, and they might have done it if they could only have got some meal and some bread to live upon.

1199. Do you mean that the people at the fishing had to do so?- No; the people whom they left at home got so little that they could hardly subsist upon it, and they had to try some other means in order to enable them to live.

1200. What other means had they?-They might have a cow or two, and make butter, and sell the milk, and buy a little meal with that.

1201. Do any of the members of your family knit?-I have two daughters who knit

1202. Do they get money for that knitting?-Not one cent.

1203. Have you sold the hosiery work for them?-I never did. They always manage these matters for themselves.

1204. Have you ever represented their case to the merchants, and said that they ought to pay them in cash?-No. It is no use saying anything of the kind, because the merchants would not give them money. There is one thing I should like to say with regard to the Faroe fishing. We come into the town of Lerwick, or any other port in Shetland where the vessels happen be fitting out, and commence to fit the vessels so as to have them ready for sea. We have to go on board, and have only an allowance of one pound of bread a day for every day we are on board the vessel. We have nothing else to live on during the time we are fitting out the vessels, and if we are absent on any account whatever during the time the vessels are being fitted out they charge 2s., 6d. per day for that, in order to put a man in our place.

1205. Is not that merely a part of your bargain with the merchants for whom you engage to fish?-It is part of the bargain, but it is a very bad part.

1206. If you did not choose to make a bargain of that kind, you would not be bound to carry it out?-That is true; but the poor people here cannot strike as they do in England: because they are so poor, the merchants can just do as they please with them.

1207. Did you sign the obligation eight years ago which has been spoken to by the previous witnesses?-No.

1208. Do you go in for the home fishing at all?-Yes; I am a fisherman in the Burra Isles.

1209. Do you consider yourself bound to fish only for Messrs. Hay in the home fishing?-I do.

1210. Have you ever been told so by Messrs. Hay?-Yes, I have been told that; and there was a document made out, but I did not sign it. I have got no notice about the matter since then, because we knew that we had to carry on the fishing in the same way.

1211. Have you ever paid liberty money?-No, I never had anybody to pay it for, and I never paid for myself.

1212. Have you ever asked to have the price of your fish fixed at the beginning of the season?-No.

1213. Is there not a feeling among the men, that that would be a better mode of dealing than the present?-We durst not go in for anything of the kind.

1214. Would it not be a better plan in the Faroe fishing?-We could not do anything of the kind there, because the merchants don't know what the price of the fish will be until they can be sold. The market may rise.

1215. You take your chance of the markets there-Yes; whatever chance the merchant gets, we get too. We run shares with the merchants in that fishing.

1216. You are not paid at so much per cwt.?-No; we have shares. One half of the fish that are brought in by the vessel belongs to the crew, and the other half belongs to the owners.

1217. Then you are not serving for wages there at all?-No; they give us wages if we have to go to Iceland in the fall of the year but they give no wages for the summer fishing at Faroe. It is just a partnership that is made up for the fish that are caught.

1218. Is there anything further you wish to say?-No; I think everything which we have to say has been pretty well said by the other men.

1219. Are all the thirteen men here who signed the letter to me about Burra?-Yes.

1220. Have any of them anything further to say?-[No answer.]

.

[Page 25]

Lerwick: Wednesday, January 3, 1872. -Mr Guthrie.

JOHN LEASK, examined.

1221. You are a fisherman at Channerwick, parish of Sandwick?- I am.

1222. You came here yesterday for the purpose making some statement: what was it about?-I wanted to make some statement about how I have been treated three years back, particularly.

1223. Are you a tenant of land?-Yes.

1224. Are you a yearly tenant?-Yes.

1225. Under whom?-Under Mr. Robert Bruce of Simbister.

1226. Do you pay your rent to him?-We pay our rent to Mr. William Irvine, the factor.

1227. Is that Mr. Irvine of Hay & Co.?-Yes.

1228. What quantity of land do you hold?-It is rather more than what are called two merks and about a third.

1229. How much is that in acres?-I don't know. It is a Danish measurement.

1230. How much rent do you pay for that?-4, 2s. 10d.

1231. Do you also pay taxes and poor-rates in addition?-No; that is included in the sum I have mentioned.

1232. What did you come to complain about?-About the way we were dealt with when we were under tack for seventeen years to Mr. Robert Mouat. He got bankrupt in the latter end.

1233. How long is it since he became bankrupt?-It was only last year, and he went away then.

1234. Before that, had he a tack of the whole lands of Mr. Bruce in that part of the country?-He had Levenwick, Channerwick and Coningsburgh in tack.

1235. Had you to pay your rent to him?-Yes.

1236. He was what is called a middle-man in Shetland?-Yes; a middle-man or tacksmaster. The Shetland name for it is tacksmaster.

1237. You were under tack to him, and you paid the same rent to him that you have mentioned just now?-Yes, I suppose so, but I don't remember what rent I paid to him, for I never got my rent from him.

1238. How do you mean?-Because he was the tacksman, and he took what rent he liked.

1239. Do you mean to say that you did not pay 4, 2s. 10d. to him the same as you are doing now?-I paid him more.

1240. When was your rent fixed at 4, 2s. 10d.?-This year.

1241. What was your rent before?-I cannot tell what it was under Mouat, for I never heard what it was. He never told me what my rent was; it was just what he liked to take. But after Mouat left, Mr. Bruce gave us our liberty. We have had our liberty for the past year, and we go now and pay our rent to the factor, and he has told us what our rent is.

1242. Did you fish for Mouat when he was there?-I was bound by the proprietor to do so.

1243. Had you signed any agreement to do that?-I was never called upon to sign any agreement, but Mouat told me that his agreement with the proprietor was that I was bound to fish for him; and he told me that if I did not fish for him, he had power to warn me out of the place where I lived.

1244. When did he tell you that?-He told me that at the commencement of the tack, seventeen years ago.

1245. Had you been in the same ground before that time?-Yes.

1246. Who did you hold from at that time?-The tacksman before Mouat was Mr. Spence, Lerwick. He collected the rents for Mr. Bruce.

1247. Was he the tacksman or only a factor?-He was a lawyer or tacksman, taking up the money for Mr. Bruce.

1248. Were you bound then to fish for any particular individual?- We were always bound.

1249. After Mouat told you that you must fish for him, did you ever fish for any one else during the whole of these seventeen years?-No.

1250. Why did you not sell your fish to any one else?-For fear of being warned off the property where was living; and I had nowhere else to go to, because I was a poor man.

1251. Is it the home fishing you are now speaking of?-Yes, the home or ling fishing; but I have been in the whale fishery, and in the straits fishery, and the Faroe fishery, as well as in the home fishery.

1252. But you were not at these other fishings for Mouat?-No; I was at home when I fished for him.

1253. Could you engage with any one you pleased for the whale fishing or the Faroe fishing?-Yes.

1254. You have no complaint to make about that-No; I could go to any one I liked, only I was bound under tack to Mouat.

1255. When you fished for Mouat, did you deliver your fish to his people?-Yes.

1256. Where?-At Levenwick.

1257. Did you deliver them green or dry?-Green.

1258. How were you paid for them?-We were just paid as he liked to pay us. He gave us just what he chose.

1259. When were you paid for them?-Sometimes in March, sometimes about the New Year, or just when he chose to make arrangements for paying us.

1260. Did he pay you then for all the fish of the previous season?-Yes.

1261. At what time in the season did you begin to fish?-We began in the spring-generally in the month of May.

1262. And all the fish which you caught from May down to next winter were paid for in January or February or March?-Yes; or at any time, just as he chose to make arrangements for paying.

1263. Did you make a bargain about the price at the beginning of the season?-No.

1264. Did you make your bargain when you delivered your fish to him?-No.

1265. When did you fix the price which you were to get?-He fixed the price when he paid us.

1266. Did you ever object to the price which he fixed?-Many a time.

1267. You made that objection at settling day?-Yes.

1268. What did he when you asked for a larger price?-He told us that we should have no more, and that we were in duty bound to fish for him.

1269. Had Mouat a shop?-Yes; his shop was at the Moul of Channerwick, close to my house.

1270. Are there many fishermen living close by there?-There are a good many, and almost all men are fishermen.

1271. Do they live near that shop?-Yes.

1272. How many houses may be there, or about that neighbourhood?-I think there are about nineteen of them close together.

1273. Are there many more houses at a little distance?-There are no more at that particular place, but in the town of Levenwick, about a mile to the south of the Moul, there are more.

1274. Is there another shop there?-No.

1275. Do the Levenwick people come to the Channerwick shop?- Yes.

1276. What did you get in Mouat's shop?-We got the goods he pleased to give us.

1277. Did you get the goods you wanted?-No; we did not get the goods we wanted. We could just get the goods he had.

1278. What did you get?-We sometimes got a [Page 26] little tea and cotton and anything we asked for that was there. If it was there for us to get it was very well; but if it was not there, we had to walk home without, and we could get no money to buy it with.

1279. How could you get no money?-Because he would not give it to us on any consideration at all.

1280. Did you often ask for?-Every year and every time.

1281. What do you mean by every time?-Every time we came to that store when we thought his goods were not a bargain for us to take we asked for some money to go somewhere else and get a better bargain; but of course we were denied it. We could get none.

1282. Did you never get an advance of money from the time the fishing began, until settling time?-No.

1283. Did you ever get any money from Mouat during the whole seventeen years you fished for him?-No.

1284. Did you not get money if there was, a balance over at settling time?-No.

1285. Do you swear that?-Yes, I do.

1286. Supposing that at the time of settling there was a balance due to you after paying your account at the shop and your rent did you not get, that in money?-No. I had to take it in goods or else go without.

1287. Were you told that you must take it in goods?-Yes; I could get no money.

1288. Did you generally take goods there and then or did you get them afterwards just as you wanted them?-Sometimes I got them as I wanted them and at other times I might take a little goods expecting that I would perhaps get a shilling of money along with them as I was in necessity for it; but I could not get any.

1289. Did you expect that you might get a shilling for the goods?-As I had a balance due I expected that I might get a shilling in money; and I did not take all the goods at one time but I took a little now when I required them, and a little the next time; and always when I came to the store I asked if I could not get a shilling in money because goods could not serve me every time.

1290. Did you sell the goods which you got from the shop in order to raise a little money?-Sometimes.

1291. Did you sell them to your neighbours?-I could not sell them to my neighbours, because they were in the same state as I was myself.

1292. Where did you sell them?-Sometimes we would take a little and fall in with a boy or a laddie, who would buy a bit of cloth from us, or the like of that, at a reduced price and thus help us to get a few shillings.

1293. To what boys or lads did you sell these goods?-Just to any lad that would buy them. Perhaps my own lad would be going elsewhere, such as to the sea, where he would be paid by a fee; and sometimes I would get a bit of goods and give it to my boy, and he would pay me for it with a few shillings out of his fee and that would serve my ends for the time.

1294. Had you anything to sell off your farm?-Yes.

1295. You sold a beast now and then?-Yes; but Mouat took the whole of them.

1296. Did he buy your beasts too?-Yes.

1297. Did you not have liberty to sell them to other people?-No, we had no liberty at all; because he said we were under the same obligation with regard to beasts and eggs and all the produce of our farms as we were under with regard to the fish, and therefore, if he got the one, he compelled us to give him the other too.

1298. When did he tell you that about the beasts and the eggs?- He told us about it in the same year that he took the tack.

1299. Did you ever try to sell them to another?-Yes, I tried that sometimes.

1300. To whom did you try to sell them?-To any one who came round asking for such things; but I knew that if I did such a thing, and Mouat came to know about it, I must be prepared to take to my heels and fly.

1301. Did you ever actually sell any of the produce of your farm to another than Mouat?-I never sold any, except one little horse; and I sold it when I was in starvation for meal. That was towards the end of Mouat's tack.

1302. How long ago was it?-I think it is two years past.

1303. Who did you sell it to?-I sold it to a man in the neighbourhood of Quarff.

1304. What was his name?-Andrew Jamieson, he lives at Quarff now.

1305. What did you get for it?-I got 2; it was a small beast

1306. Did Mouat know that you had sold that beast to Jamieson?-Yes, and as soon as he heard about it he sent for me, and told me what he was determined to do, and that I might prepare myself for going.

1307. How long was that before he failed?-I think I only paid one year after that.

1308. Do you mean that there was only one settlement with him after that?-Yes.

1309. When you were making your settlements, I suppose it was the previous Whitsunday and Martinmas rents that you settled for at each?-Yes.

1310. How long would it be before the settlement that you sold the horse?-I sold it after the settlement for the year. Mouat knew that I had a pony to sell and he wanted me to give it to him. I said that I would give him the pony as he told me I was bound to do it but he must bring me some meal, because it was a very bad season, and I could not sow down my ground. He would not bring me any meal and therefore I resolved that, whatever might happen to me whether I should be put out or not, I would sell my animal and procure a living for my house; and I did so.

1311. At what time of the year did you sell it?-In March.

1312. That would be shortly after the settlement?-Yes.

1313. How long was it after that when Mouat told you that you must leave?-Just about eight days-as soon as he heard it.

1314. But he did not turn you off?-No.

1315. Could he not have turned you off at the following Whitsunday term?-Yes; he could have turned me off then.

1316. But he did not do it?-No; because I went to the proprietor, Mr. Bruce, and told him what I had done, and what Mouat was going to do to me. I don't know what took place between Mr. Bruce and Mouat about that, but I did not get my warning?

1317. What did Mr. Bruce say to you about it when you saw him?-He said very little. I went to him, and also to the factor, Mr. Irvine, and told him about it. I got no satisfaction at the time, and therefore I expected I would be turned off; but in the end I was not put off the ground.

1318. That would be in the spring of 1870?-Yes.

1319. Have you paid any rent to Mr. Irvine or to Mr Bruce this year?-Yes; I paid my rent about six weeks ago.

1320. To whom do you deliver your fish now?-To any one I choose.

1321. Who did you fish for last season?-For Mr. Robertson.

1322. Where do you get your goods now?-I can get them from Mr. Robertson. He bought Mouat's store in Channerwick.

1323. Do you still get your goods there?-Yes.

1324. Are you bound to get them there?-We are not bound particularly, because if we ask Mr. Robertson for a few shillings of money during the time we are fishing for him, we will get them.

1325. Have you got money from him since he took that store?- Yes; I got my rent from him this year.

1326. You mean, that you got money from him to pay your rent?- Yes.

1327. Can you mention the name of any person who [Page 27] was turned away for selling his fish or the produce of his farm to another merchant than during the seventeen years he held the tack?-I cannot mention any one particularly, except an old man who was turned off his farm; but that was a good while ago. His name was Henry Sinclair, in Levenwick. That occurred about the beginning of Mouat's tack.

1328. What was he turned out for?-For an 'outfall' about some fishing.

1329. What had he done with his fish?-It was his son that the thing occurred with.

1330. What had his son done?-His son got into some sort of dispute with Mouat about fishing, I can not tell what the cause of it was exactly; but Mouat gave him warning, and sent him off the property that he was staying on. Sinclair took a little bit of scattald outside of the premises, and built a house on it, and he is living there in a very mean condition.

1331. Did the other people in the neighbourhood take that case as a warning?-Yes.

1332. It frightened them, did it?-Yes; Shetland people are of that nature, to be frightened by such things-very much to their hurt.

1333. Do you know of any other person who was turned off in the same way?-No, I don't remember of any other person being turned off; because Mouat had no occasion to turn them off. They did not transgress his law.

1334. Do you know of any other who was threatened to be turned off?-Every one of us was threatened, the next man was threatened, and we were all threatened; so that we were frightened.

1335. Do you know of any person who sold his fish or his beasts or eggs to another than Mouat?-Towards the end of his tack, in the very last fishing when I fished for him, my family and I were in a state of starvation for want of meal. I have seen me out at sea under him for two days and part of a third, on two pounds of meal; and I saw that I must make some effort for a living, Accordingly I went to another store close by and gave them some of the fish I had caught, and got some meal from them. If Mouat's tack had continued longer, I have no doubt I would have been punished for that; but as it was nearly broken, he did not have it in his power to do me any hurt.

1336. Did Mouat speak to you about that?-Yes. There came a letter from him to the people in the neighbourhood, because some of them did take their liberty and go away.

1337. Was that in the last year of his tack?-Yes.

1338. What kind of letters were these?-They were letters from Mouat telling them not to prepare their turf or anything to keep them in their farms, because they had their warning to go. I got a letter as well as the rest.

1339. Did it refer to the fish that you had sold to the other merchant?-Yes.

1340. Have you got that letter?-I don't know. I don't know what became of it. I think I burnt it; but there ought to be letters in the neighbourhood that came from Mouat at that time.

1341. You said you did not get all the goods you wanted at Mouat's shop. What were the goods you asked for and could not get?-I generally asked for little tea.

1342. Could you not get that?-Yes, I always got that, and I could get a bit of cotton or anything out of the store that I wanted.

1343. Did you get the tackle you wanted for your fishing from him?-Yes.

1344. And clothes for your family?-I could get clothes for my family if I asked for them. Sometimes I did get a little clothing from him.

1345. Was it principally meal and tea that you got from Mouat?- Yes; and if his meal had been grain, it would have been good enough; but as it was, it was not fit for human food.

1346. You mean that it was not of good quality?-It was not; and we paid at the dearest rate for it.

1347. How do you know that?-Because we heard it from the storeman who sold it to us. Mouat had a storeman in the shop; and when we got the meal from him, he told us what the price of it was.

1348. Had you a pass-book?-We sometimes had a pass-book, but it was not always taken there; and besides, the storeman was not very willing to be bothered with it.

1349. Did you ever ask the price of meal and tea in Lerwick?- Yes.

1350. Did you ever buy these articles in Lerwick when you happened to have some money?-Yes, sometimes when I had any money I did so; but it was very little money that ever I had, because where could we get it, when we could get no money at all for our fishing?

1351. Have you bought these articles in Lerwick within the last two or three years?-Yes.

1352. Did you find the Lerwick meal better and cheaper than what you got from Mouat?-Yes; the Lerwick meal was grain, but Mouat's meal was nothing but the refuse of the worst that was given to us poor fishing slaves.

1353. Then the complaint you have to make is only about what is past?-Yes; about how I was treated during the seventeen years I was under Mouat. I have nothing to say against Mr. Robert Bruce, or against Mr. Robertson either, with regard to our present condition.

1354. You are quite content with your way of dealing at present?-Yes, I have nothing to say against that, but I am frightened for the future.

1355. Have you a boat of your own?-No.

1356. How do you do for a boat?-I generally arrange with some fish-curer, and he procures me a boat, and takes a hire for it for the season.

1357. How much is the hire?-The hire, as a general rule, has been 2 for three months, or 3, 10s. for the whole season.

1358. Is that the way you did with Mr. Robertson last year?-Yes.

1359. You got goods at his store?-Yes.

1360. As many goods as you wanted during the fishing season?- Yes.

1361. And a little money when you asked for it?-Yes.

1362. How much money would you get at a time from him?-If I asked Mr. Robertson for 5s. or 2s. or 6s., I would get it, according as I asked for it.

1363. If you asked for the whole of your earnings in money, and took no goods out of Mr. Robertson's store, is it likely that you would get the money, so that you could go elsewhere and buy your goods?-I could not say anything about that, because I did not ask it.

1364. You don't wish to go anywhere else?-No; I have not tried that.

1365. Do you think the quality of Mr. Robertson's goods is better than Mouat's?-Oh, Mouat's was nothing at all.

1366. Have you any daughters in your family who knit?-I have two.

1367. Do they knit their own worsted?-Yes; they make worsted for themselves from the wool of our own sheep.

1368. Do they go into Lerwick to sell the articles they have made?-They do.

1369. To whom do they sell them?-To anybody; they do not knit for a merchant. They go to any merchant they choose and sell their shawls, because the worsted with which they are made is their own. If they go into one store with the shawl, and the price is not suitable, they go into the next one.

1370. How are they paid for their shawls?-They are paid in goods at any store where they can sell them.

1371. Do they ever ask for money?-They have asked for it often, but they have never got it; and therefore they say there is no use asking for it, because they know they won't get it.

1372. Are you satisfied with the value of the goods they get in exchange for their shawls?-Sometimes, but not always. Sometimes the goods which they get [Page 28] in exchange are not worth the value put upon them. Sometimes they get cottons for 10d. which are not worth above 8d.

1373. How do you know that?-Because I see the quality of them.

1374. Have they told you the price which the merchant has charged for them?-Yes; and sometimes when my daughters have knitted a shawl, and it is ready to go to the dresser, there may be no money in the house to pay for the dressing of it, and it has to be paid in money. I have known my daughters detained in that way for some days, until I went to a neighbour and borrowed a shilling to pay for the dressing of the shawl, or until I could sell something off the farm; and then, when the shawl was dressed, they went to the merchant with it and sold it to him for goods, according to the custom.

1375. Can your daughters not dress the shawls themselves?-No; they are shawl-makers, but not shawl-dressers. Their dresser is Mrs. Arcus, at the Docks.

1376. Is she the only dresser here?-No; there are other dressers than her, but she is the only one that my daughters go to.

1377. Would she not give them credit for the dressing?-No.

1378. She always requires ready money for that?-Yes; she might give credit to a girl living in the town, but I live sixteen miles from Lerwick, and she would not give credit to a party living at that distance.

1379. How long have your daughters knitted?-A long time now. There is one of them twenty-seven years of age, and she has knitted since she was about eighteen.

1380. Have you ever seen your daughters bring home money for their knitting?-No; I never saw a shilling come into our house in my life which had been got for a shawl. I have paid out several shillings for the dressing of the shawls but I never saw any money given in for them.

1381. Is there anything more you wish to say?-No.

Lerwick, January 3, 1872, GAVIN COLVIN, examined.

1382. Are you a fisherman?-Yes.

1383. Where?-In Levenwick, Sandwick parish.

1384. Was the ground there held in tack by Robert Mouat at one time?-Yes.

1385. How long have you been there?-I have been there all my life.

1386. What was your rent when you held your land under Mouat?-It was 4, excluding poor-rates and road money.

1387. That was what you paid to Mouat?-Yes.

1388. Then you knew what your rent was?-Yes. Of course he told us what our rent was.

1389. And it was accounted for at the settlement?-Yes. At the settlement he summed up our accounts, and told us we were due so much-so much for rent and so much for goods.

1390. Had you a pass-book?-No. He did not approve of pass-books.

1391. Did you take a note yourself of the goods you got, or did you just trust to the people at the store?-I trusted to the people at the store,-to his storekeeper.

1392. Have you been present during the examination of John Leask?-Yes.

1393. You have heard all that he said about the way of dealing, and about the store, and the quality of the goods?-Yes.

1394. Do you agree with all that he said?-Yes, I agree more particularly with what he said about the quality of the goods. The goods were very inferior at Mouat's store.

1395. You also agree with him in his description of the way of dealing with Mouat?-Yes.

1396. Do you also say that you were compelled to sell all your fish to him?-Yes. All our earnings, whether by sea or land, were in duty bound to his store. That was stated to us every year at the settlement.

1397. Was that stated to you by Mouat?-Yes. We were told that we were in duty bound to bring every iota of our produce, whether by sea or land, to his store.

1398. Did you ever get any letter threatening you for selling your fish or your goods to another than Mouat?-I never did, I got no letter, because I never got far forward as to require that treatment.

1399. You never got warning to go away?-No, but I was often told that I would get warning if I persisted in such things.

1400. Do you know of any of your neighbours having got such letters?-No; not in my neighbourhood.

1401. Is there anything you wish to add to the statement made by John Leask?-Nothing.

1402. Who were you fishing for last year?-For Mr. Robertson.

1403. Did you get goods at his store?-Yes.

1404. They were of better quality than those you got from Mouat?-Certainly they were.

1405. Do you get all the money you ask for?-I get what goods I require, and if I ask for money I will get it. At the settlement, if there is anything due to me I will get it; and if I don't have money for my rent, he will help me with it.

1406. But if you want all your balance in money, will you get it?- Yes. I got it last time. We are quite satisfied with Mr. Robertson according to the custom of the country.

1407. But are you satisfied with the custom of the country?-No; I don't agree with it.

1408. What do you want to be changed?-I am not prepared to say in the meantime.

1409. Do you want the price of your fish fixed in advance?-We would require that, I think, for some encouragement to us.

1410. Could you not get it fixed then, if you asked for it?-We have asked for it, but we have never got it yet.

1411. Who did you ask it from?-From the dealers we were fishing to, all along.

1412. But you have fished for no dealers except Mouat and Robertson?-No.

1413. Have you asked them to fix the price before?-Yes.

1414. Did they refuse your request?-Yes. They refused to state a price then, and said they would give the currency of the country at the end of the season.

1415. Have you asked them to pay for the fish as they were delivered?-No; I never asked them for that.

Lerwick, January 3, 1872, CATHERINE PETRIE, examined.

1416. You come from the island of Fetlar?-Yes.

1417. Where do you live there?-In Aithness.

1418. Are you a married woman?-No.

1419. Do you live with your people?-Yes.

1420. Are you in the habit of knitting?-Yes.

1421. What do you knit?-Fine shawls and veils.

1422. Do you knit these articles with your own wool?-Yes.

1423. Do you make your own worsted, or buy it?-I buy wool, and make it.

1424. Where do you buy it?-From any person who sells it. There is a Mrs. Smith in Fetlar who sells wool. She lives at a place called Smithfield.

1425. Has she a shop?-No. They formerly had shop, but they don't have one now. She is a widow

1426. Has she any land?-Yes; she has a small farm. She has some sheep, and she obliges any person with wool who wants it.

1427. Do you always buy your wool from her?-[Page 29] Sometimes from her, and sometimes from any merchant I can get it from.

1428. Do you pay for it in money?-Yes; or in work.

1429. What kind of work?-Any kind of household work that they have to do. People employ others to do so much work, and give them wool for it.

1430. Do you mean work on their farms or ground-Yes; and they will give them wool in return, because the wool in Fetlar is so scarce.

1431. You knit on your own account, and sell what you knit?- Yes.

1432. Do you sell it to merchants in Fetlar?-No. There are no merchants in Fetlar who take it. I come down to Lerwick with it once a year.

1433. Do you then bring in with you all that you have knitted during the season?-Yes.

1434. How much will you bring?-It is not much; perhaps two or three shawls. I have had as high as five shawls when I came down. We have household work to attend to, and we cannot knit so fast as they do here in Lerwick.

1435. It is just part of your time that you can give?-Yes.

1436. Have you come down just now for the purpose of selling the articles you have knitted?-Yes.

1437. How many shawls did you bring with you this year?-Two.

1438. That is less than usual?-Yes.

1439. How do you get paid for your shawls?-I get goods out of the shop.

1440. Does the merchant fix the price 'for the shawl' when you take it in?-Yes.

1441. How much did you get for the two you brought down this time?-16s. for one, and 17s. for the other; and I had one belonging to another person that I got 19s. for.

1442. Who was the merchant that you sold them to?-Mr. Sinclair.

1443. What did you get for them?-Goods.

1444. Did you ask for money?-I did not ask for money, because it has been understood for many years back that they would not give any, and goods are marked on the paper that we get. When I come down I employ a person to dress the shawls, and then that person sells them for me in the shop, and I get back a note from her, stating the amount in goods that I am to get for them. I understand not to ask for money, because the thing is always in that form.

1445. When you get the note, do you hand it back at the shop and get the goods in return?-Yes.

1446. Have you got any of these notes?-No; I have got the goods for them, and I was preparing to return to Fetlar when I was summoned here.

1447. Is the note printed or written?-It is all written.

1448. Who is the dresser that you employ?-A Miss Robertson. I don't know where she lives. The woman I live with when in Lerwick-Mrs. Park, Charlotte Place-went with her when she sold the shawls.

1449. Do you never go to the shop and sell your own shawls?- Sometimes I do; but not this time.

1450. Did you ever go to the shop to sell your shawls, and ask to be paid in money?-No; because I understood I would get no money.

1451. Did you ever get any part of the balance in money?-None.

1452. What do you get in goods?-Any kind of soft goods which I want, and which are in the shop. If the goods I want are not in the shop, then they would say that they did not have them; and I would have to take something else.

1453. Is it just soft goods that are in the shop?-Yes.

1454. Not provisions?-No; not provisions.

1455. Is there any tea?-No.

1456. You go to the shop yourself for your goods, and hand your line in payment for them?-Yes.

1457. Could you the same goods in Fetlar?-I could get the goods in Fetlar if I had money to give for them; but I could not get money for shawls or veils in Fetlar.

1458. But if you had the money, could you get the goods as good and cheap in Fetlar as in Lerwick?-Yes; they are very cheap in Fetlar. Messrs. Hay Co. have a shop there.

1459. And you think you could get your goods as good and cheap there as you can in Lerwick?-Yes.

1460. And of course you would not have to carry them back with you?-No.

1461. Are there many people in Fetlar who knit the same way as you do, and come in to Lerwick to sell their shawls?-Yes; there are a good many people who knit in the same way that I do, and come down here with their shawls, because there is no other way of disposing of them.

1462. Do they get their payment in the same way?-So far as I know, they do.

1463. Do they always get goods for their lines when they come down?-Yes.

1464. Will they not get a line to come down at another time for the goods?-No; I don't think they would get them in that way.

1465. Suppose you did not want the whole amount of your line in goods at one time, could you not take the line home with you, and when you happened to be again in Lerwick might you not get the balance in any kind of goods you wanted that were in the shop?- Yes; and I could get the goods at any time if I were to send down the line.

1466. Is that sometimes done?-I have never done it; but I suppose the merchants would do it.

1467. Did you ever know of a line being sold to another for money, or for another kind of goods?-No; I never did that myself, and I don't know of it being done.

1468. Is it all drapery that you are taking back?-Yes.

1469. Then you will have about 2 or 3 worth of it this time?- Yes.

1470. Do you want all that for your own use?-The girl for whom I sold one of the shawls will get her share of it.

1471. But when you brought down five shawls you might have twice as much to take back as you have this time?-It is not very much that they give for the shawls sometimes; and once, when I came down from Fetlar and had to pay the freight, I had to take what they would give me; and I could not get what I asked.

1472. Is it all stuff for, your own use that you are taking back, in exchange for your own, shawls which you sold?-Yes.

1473. Do you want the goods?-Yes.

1474. Are you to use them for yourself?-Yes.

Lerwick, January 3, 1872, MARGARET TULLOCH, examined.

1475. You live in Lerwick

1476. Are you in the habit of knitting for merchants here?-Yes.

1477. Do you buy your own wool?-For about eighteen months I have bought it.

1478. Before that, how did you do?-I knitted for Mr. Robert Linklater.

1479. You got the wool from him and knitted it, and took back the articles to him?-Yes.

1480. When you got the wool from him, in what way were you paid?-In goods.

1481. Had you a pass-book?-Yes.

1482. Have you got it with you?-Yes. [Produces it]

1483. The goods you got at the shop are entered in the first part of the book, and then at the end there are entries of the knitted work which you have brought back to the shop?-Yes; I knitted a great deal before I took the pass-book out at all.

1484. The knitting begins on July 7th, 1869, and the goods begin in November 1866, and there was balance due for knitting of 3, 17s., 10d., which is not entered in the book at all: how do you explain in that?-It was them who always made up the book.

[Page 30]

1485. Had you a pass-book for goods before this?-I knitted a long time before I took a pass-book.

1486. When did you begin to knit?-I cannot remember how many years it is ago. I had knitted for two or three years to Mr. Linklater before I got the book.

1487. Are the goods which are entered here just for your own use?-No; I sold some tea and got money for it, for I could not get money out of the shop.

1488. I see that in, 1867, on January 3d, you have, Tea 1s. 10d.; 24th, 9d.; 26th, tea 11d., tea 11d., 1s. 10d: does the last entry mean that you got two separate parcels of tea, each 11d.?-It may have been that; I cannot exactly say.

1489. How much tea would you get for 11d.?-A quarter of a pound.

1490. Then you got two quarter pounds on one day?-I suppose so. One would be for my own use and the other not.

1491. What would the other be for?-I would likely sell the other, in order to get money for it.

1492. Who do you generally sell it to?-I cannot remember who I sold it to. Sometimes there would be men coming to the house to buy, tea, and I supplied them.

1493. What kind of men were these?-Men come from the country and want to have some tea made and I supply them with it because I have it in the house.

1494. Do you keep lodgers?-I have very few lodgers; but sometimes people come from the country and want tea made for them, although they do not stay all night.

1495. Why, did they not stay all night?-Because they went home.

1496. Was it part of your business to take in people and give them tea?-No; but they would come into the house and get tea made, and then go out and do their errands.

1497. Then they came to your house to get refreshments?-Yes.

1498. And they sometimes paid you for the which they got?-Yes; I was always paid for the tea which I gave them in that way.

1499. Did you sell it to them in quarter pounds or smaller quantities?-Smaller quantities.

1500. Do you make a profit off that?-I get money for that, but I cannot say that I make a profit. Sometimes I had people working for me, to whom I gave a quarter pound of tea.

1501. When you got two quarter pounds, would you sell one quarter entire?-Yes. When people were working for me, then I had to give them a quarter of a pound of tea in order to pay them, because I did not have money to give them.

1502. What people had you working for you?-I have sometimes been sick, and I have had a person attending upon me, because I am not healthy; and I had to pay these persons in tea.

1503. Are you a married woman?-No.

1504. Have you a house of your own?-Yes; a room.

1505. The entries in this book only come down to February 1870. Have you had no book since then?-No.

1506. Have you still been dealing with Mr. Linklater?-No; I have been working for myself with my own worsted. That was when I stopped knitting for him.

1507. I see an entry on September 9th 1868, Tea 10d., tea 8d., 1s. 6d.: would these be two quarter pounds of tea of different quality?-Sometimes they would be that, and sometimes not.

1508. But I am speaking of that particular entry. Was it so in that, case?-I cannot remember.

1509. But when you got tea at 10d. and tea at 8d., that must have been two quarter pounds of different qualities?-Yes; I would get better tea, and tea that was not so good.

1510. When you got them on the same day, would you be intending to sell one of them?-Yes.

1511. Is that a common practice, to get two quarter pounds of tea and to sell one of them, or to get several quarter pounds in payment for your shawl?-No; I just got it as I asked for it.

1512. Have you sold anything else besides tea which you got from the shop?-Yes, cottons and some moleskins which I had to take out of the shop in order to pay my rent.

1513. I don't see any moleskins marked here?-No; they are not in that book.

1514. Had you any other book?-No; it was when I sold my own shawls that I took the moleskins.

1515. You say you buy your own wool: where do you buy it?- There is a woman who spins it for me. I buy it in worsted.

1516. Do you pay her for it in money?-Yes.

1517. And you sell your shawls to any merchant who will buy them?-Yes.

1518. How are you paid for them?-I sold the last two to Miss Robina Leisk.

1519. Is she a merchant in Lerwick?-Yes.

1520. Has she a shop?-Yes.

1521. How were you paid for these shawls?-I got 2, 14s. for the two-27s. apiece.

1522. Were you paid in money?-No.

1523. Were they fine shawls?-Yes

1524-5. Did you get any part of that sum in money?-14s.

1526. Was that all you asked for in money?-Yes.

1527. And you got the rest in goods?-Yes.

1528. Did you want these goods for your own use?-No; I took some moleskins to sell.

1529. Was that because you could not get the rest in money?- Yes.

1530. Did you ask for more in money?-She did not want to give me more.

1531. Did you ask for more?-I did not ask for it, because I knew I would not get it.

1532. Did she say she would give you that much, without your asking?-Yes.

1533. What did you do with the moleskins?-I sold them.

1534. How much of them did you take?-21/2 yards.

1535. What was the price of them?-2s. 8d. a yard.

1536. Was there anything else you bought for the purpose of selling?-Yes; I bought some cotton.

1537. Have you sold it?-Yes.

1538. Did you get as much for it as you paid?-Yes.

1539. Did you get a little more?-No; no more. I thought it a favour to get the same price.

1540. Did you know any person who would take these goods from you at the time you got them, or did you buy them on the chance of selling them?-No; I knew a person who would buy them from me.

1541. Is that the way you generally deal when you have shawls to sell?-Yes.

1542. You get some things that you want, and some things that your neighbours want, and as much as you can in money?-Yes.

1543. Do you often get tea for the purpose of selling it?-I get it when I ask it; but I only ask it when I know of a person who will take it from me for what they have done for me.

1544. How do you purchase the provisions-the meal and bread- that you want?-When I sell anything that I get for my work, I buy them with the money.

1545. But if you don't have the money, what do you do?-I don't have money at the time, I go down to a shop and get it from them until I can get the money to pay for it.

1546. What did you do with the 14s. that you got for the shawls from Miss Leisk?-It would go for worsted to make other things.

1547. Have you always to pay money for your worsted?-Yes.

1548. You don't get provisions, either meal or bread, at the shops where you sell your shawls?-No.

1549. Is that never done in Lerwick?-No; I never had it done to me. Those who buy the shawls keep nothing of that kind.

1550. Would you be content to take a lower price [Page 31] for your shawls if you were paid for them in money instead of goods?-Yes.

1551. Have the merchants ever offered you a lower price for your shawls in money?-No.

1552. Have you ever asked them to do that, or tried to get them to do it?-I knew that I need not try that, because I would not have got it.

1553. Do you manage to sell many of your shawls privately in the town, or to visitors in the summer?-No.

1554. Is there not a good deal of that done in Lerwick?-I believe some people do that, but I don't do it.

1555. Is it not an advantage to get them sold in that way?-Yes; I think it would be an advantage to get ready money.

1556. Do charitable ladies sometimes take the shawls-and get them sold to their friends at a distance?-I can say nothing about that, because I never sold them in that way.

1557. Do you give receipts for the goods or money which you get as the price of your shawls?-No.

1558. The transaction is all done across the counter, without any writing?-Yes.

1559. Do you know whether the shopkeeper enters the price of the shawls, and the amount of the goods sold to you in return for them, in any book? Do you see whether that is done?-No, I don't see it.

1560. You have never noticed that?-No.

Lerwick, January 3, 1872, MARY HUTCHISON, examined.

1561. You live in Lerwick?-Yes.

1562. Are you in the habit of knitting?-Yes.

1563. Do you knit with your own wool?-Yes.

1564. Do you sell your knitting in Lerwick?-I sell some of it in Lerwick; but I send the most of it south, to Mr. John F. White, Edinburgh.

1565. Do you also act as an agent for him in Lerwick, by taking in things from other people?-Yes; a little.

1566. How are you paid for the articles you send to him?-I am paid in ready money.

1567. Is it remitted to you by a post office order or a bank cheque, as the case may be?-Yes.

1568. How much do you send to him?-I never send a large quantity. I just send what he tells me: a few shawls at a time.

1569. He gives you orders which you execute?-Yes.

1570. Do many women who knit come and sell their shawls to you?-No; I don't buy shawls. I give out wool to be knitted.

1571. How do you purchase your wool?-I buy it for money.

1572. From merchants in Lerwick?-Yes. Sometimes I buy from Mr. Sinclair, but generally I send to the North Isles for it, to people who buy it in there.

1573. There are people in the North Isles who buy the wool from their neighbours and sell it to you, such as Mrs. Smith, who was spoken of by a previous witness?-Yes; much the same.

1574 Have you dealt with her?-No.

1575. Do you pay the women who work for you in money?-Yes.

1576. You don't keep a store?-No, nothing except the money; or whatever they require they got it.

1577. Do you make a bargain when you give out the wool, or fix price when you see the work?-I buy the wool, and employ them to knit it.

1578. You do not merely act as agent for Mr. White?-No; I just buy the wool and employ the women, and pay them according to the size of the shawl.

1579. How many women are working for you in that way?-I cannot say exactly.

1580. Are there about half a dozen?-Yes, just about that.

1581. Do you find that the women here are anxious to work for you?-Yes; they are anxious to get money.

1582. You think they would much rather work, for you than for a merchant who keeps a shop?-Yes; I am never at a loss for them. When I am in a hurry I always get them to help me, because I pay in money.

1583. I suppose you get the choice of the knitters?-I don't know about that. I just get done what I have to do.

1584. Have you often been applied to by women who were anxious to work for you rather than for the shops?-Yes; very often.

1585. Do they tell you that it is a kindness or charity to employ them?-Yes; because they could not get the money out of the shops.

1586. Do you know, from your own observation of the system, as to the mode of dealing at the shops?-I often sell shawls in the shops, although I am not in the habit of going with them myself, so that I am often dealing a little in the shops.

1587. You send them by some other person?-Yes: I employ a girl to go and sell them for me.

1588. In that case, how is the transaction carried out?-I just get a line out of the shop, and get goods for it.

1589. Is the line in your name?-No; it is just a simple line or I O U, and I send it back: to the shop at any time when I want the goods.

1590. Have you any of these lines with you?-I have one at home, which I will send in.

1591. From whom did you get it?-From Mr Robert Sinclair.

1592. Have you sometimes got these lines from knitters?-Yes; often.

1593. They wanted money, and could not get it at the shops, and brought their lines to you?-Yes; I have often taken a line and given them money for it in order to meet their necessities, because they would not get money elsewhere.

1594. You kept these lines until you could make some use of them yourself?-Yes. Whenever I required any little thing, I sent to the shop for it, and paid for it with these lines.

1595. Have you any of these lines belonging to other women in your hands just now?-I have not.

1596. How much money may you have had lying out in that way at a time?-Not very much; perhaps a few shillings now and then.

1597. Are the lines generally for a large amount?-No; from 8s. to 7s. or 8s., or thereabout.

1598. May you have had two or three of them at a time?-Perhaps one or two.

1599. Have you known other, people taking lines in the same way?-Yes;, I believe there are many who do it.

1600. Do you know any one who is often applied to in that way?- I cannot say exactly; but I have often taken a line from Miss Elizabeth Robertson, who was examined on Monday, and given her money for it, because she was in necessity.

1601. Does Janet Irvine knit for you?-Yes.

1602. Have you taken lines, from her?-No; she is a fish-girl, and does not knit much.

1603. In selling your own shawls to the shops, have you asked for money?-No; but I have told the girl who went with the shawls to sell them for me to ask for a shilling or two, and she said she need not ask for it because she would not get it.

1604. But that was a case of sale. You know nothing about the case where, the wool has been given out by the shops?-No, I don't know about that, because it is long since I knitted any for the shops.

1605. Do you know of any other person in Lerwick who sends hosiery south in the same way?-Yes; there are plenty of them through the town.

1606. Do they send the hosiery, south direct to White or to other merchants in Edinburgh or Glasgow?-Yes; there are, plenty who do that; but I never have any dealings with any one except Mr. White.

1607. Who else in Lerwick deals in that way with [Page 32] the shops in the south?-There is a Mrs. James Henry in Burn's Lane, and a Mrs. Elizabeth Anderson, and several other people.

Lerwick, January 3, 1872, CATHERINE BORTHWICK, examined.

1608. Are you a knitter in Lerwick?-I am.

1609. Do you buy your own wool?-No.

1610. Who do you knit for?-For Mr. Robert Sinclair, Mr. Thomas Nicholson, and sometimes for Miss Robina Leisk.

1611. Have you books with all these people

1612. Have you any pass-book at all?-No.

1613. You get the wool weighed out to you, and you take back the article which has been ordered?-Yes.

1614. What articles do you knit?-Veils, shawls, neckties, ladies' scarfs, and the like.

1615. How long have you been doing business in that way?- About fifteen years.

1616. How are you paid?-Just in goods from the shops.

1617. You take an article which you have made to the shop, and tell them what the price is?-No; they price it themselves.

1618. Do they price it when the material is given out to you?-No; they price it when the article is brought to them again.

1619. When they have fixed the price, what takes place?-I can get anything out of their shop in the shape of goods that I ask for, only I cannot get any money.

1620. Do you not get part of the price in money?-No; I have never any money from Mr. Sinclair, except perhaps 5s., for the whole fourteen years I have wrought for him.

1621. Do you get money from other dealers you have mentioned?-I have got a little money from Mr. Thomas Nicholson; but it is not long since he began business for himself.

1622. Do you often go into the shops with articles worth about 10s?-Yes.

1623. How much of that do you get in money?-I have never got any money from Mr. Sinclair at all. It is about seven years since I asked him for 1s., and he would not give it me, and I have not asked since.

1624. Can you only get dry goods and tea at the shops?-I can get tea, and soap, and soda, and blue, and starch, and the like of that.

1625. How do you get your food?-I have a father, who buys it for me.

1626. You live with your father, and get your food with the family?-Yes; what his wages can bring in.

1627. Is that the only way you have of getting a living?-No; sometimes I have to take things out of the shop and sell them for money.

1628. To whom do you sell them?-To any neighbour or any person who requires them.

1629. Do you do that often?-No; I have not done it for the last two years, because some of the ladies in the town have employed me to knit for money.

1630. Do you prefer to sell to ladies in the town?-Yes.

1631. Are the goods which you knit for them for their own use?- Yes; or perhaps they get an order from the south, and they will rather put the money our way than go to the merchants with it.

1632. Do many ladies befriend you in that way?-Not many. There is Mrs. Walker, the Rev. Mr. Walker's lady.

1633. Who else?-I have not done anything for any other person for money.

1634. But Mrs. Walker pays you in money?-Yes; and the same amount as I would get in goods from the shops.

1635. Are the women who knit anxious to get customers of that kind?-Yes.

1636. Would you be content with a lower price for your shawls if you could get it in cash?-Yes.

1637. Have you ever been to take a lower price and get the money?-No.

1638. Have you ever offered to take less for your shawls if you could get money?-Yes.

1639. To whom did you make that offer?-I offered a white half- shawl to Mr. Robert Sinclair, and I also offered a white half-shawl to Mr. Thomas Nicholson.

1640. When?-The one I sold to Mr. Nicholson was in the spring, and that to Mr. Sinclair was about two years back.

1641. How much less did you offer to take in these cases?-2s. The shawl was worth 1, and I offered it for 18s.

1642. Was anything due to you by Mr. Sinclair at the time you asked for the shilling?-Yes; I think he was due me about 5s. 6d. at that time.

1643. Do you mean that you took goods to the shop worth 5s. 6d.?-No; he was due me about 5s., 6d. at that time. I was knitting a shawl for him, and was settling up for it.

1644. Was the shawl not finished?-Yes; I brought the shawl ready, and I was settling up. I had all the price of the shawl to get, and I took some goods, and then there was about 5s. 6d. over; and I asked him for 1s., and he said he could not give it to me.

1645. How did you square the balance at that time?-I just took something to give to a girl who had been working in our peats.

1646. What did you take?-A petticoat.

1647. Was it worth. 5s. 6d.?-Yes; the girl took it because she knew I could not get the money.

Lerwick, January 3, 1872, MRS. MARGERY MANSON or ANDERSON, examined.

1648. Are you a knitter in Lerwick?-Yes.

1649. Do you knit with your own wool?-I have done so for the last twelve months.

1650. Before that, who did you knit for?-For Mr. Robert Linklater.

1651. You got wool from him?-Yes.

1652. Were you paid for your work in goods, or in money?-In goods.

1653. Did you get any money from him that you asked for, if you, wanted some?-I knew that I need not ask him for any, because I would not have got it.

1654. You are married, and therefore you don't spend all your time in knitting?-No.

1655. Why did you give up knitting for Mr. Linklater?-Because I could not do with it; it did not pay me.

1656. How did it not pay you?-I could not get money.

1657. But were the goods you got not as good you as money?- No.

1658. Were they not worth the money value that was put upon them?-No.

1659. Why was that?-I did not have money to live upon.

1660. But your husband keeps you?-No; he is sickly, and I have to do for myself.

1661. You have heard the evidence of the preceding witnesses, Catherine Borthwick and Margaret Tulloch?-Yes.

1662. They have explained the way of dealing here. Is that the way you have been accustomed to?-Yes.

1663. Have you anything different to say about the way in which you were paid for shawls that you knitted with Mr. Linklater's wool?-No.

1664. Did you ever get lines when you would not take goods?- No; I had a pass-book.

1665. Have you got it here?-No.

1666. Was it kept in the same way as Margaret Tulloch's?-Yes.

1667. The goods you got were entered at one end, and the shawls you gave in were entered at the other, and a balance was made now and then?-Yes.

[Page 33]

1668. How often was your book balanced?-I don't remember.

1669. Did you sign your pass-book as a receipt?-No; he signed it.

1670. You have had no pass-book since you began to knit with your own wool?-No.

1671. Where do you buy your wool now?-I have a woman spinning for me, and I buy the worsted from her.

1672. You pay her in ready money?-Yes.

1673. Do you sell your shawls to any person in particular?-Yes; to Mr Robert Sinclair.

1674. Are you paid for them in goods?-Yes, and a little in money. I always get some money from him to buy the worsted with.

1675. Would you be content with a lower price for your shawls if you were paid in money?-Yes.

1676. Have you ever asked to get it all in money, and offered to take less?-No.

1677. Do you ever sell shawls to ladies or to any person not in the trade?-No; Mr. Robert Sinclair has bought them all from me.

1678. Have you ever asked for more money from any of the merchants than they would give you?-No.

1679. Have you ever got lines?-Yes, I got lines from Mr. Sinclair.

1680. When?-When I gave in my articles.

1681. And when you did not happen to want goods?-Yes.

1682. Have you got any of these lines?-No.

1683. What did you do with them?-I gave them back when I got the goods.

1684. Was that long ago?-No, not long ago; it was when I sold my last shawl to him.

1685. Would that be a month or two?-Yes.

1686. Was a line given to you for the whole price of the shawl that you were selling, or was it only for the balance?-27s., was the price of the shawl.

1687. How much of that did you take in goods?-I took about one half of it, and I got a line for the rest.

1688. Did you take the line out in goods afterwards-Yes.

1689. You did not think of asking money for the line?-No; I never asked money at that time.

1690. Did you ever know of people selling their lines to their neighbours?-No.

1691. Or dealing with them in any way, or letting their neighbours get goods for them?-No.

1692. How much of the 27s., the price of your last shawl, did you get in money?-7s.

1693. When was that?-I think about two months ago, I do not recollect exactly.

1694. Was the 7s. all that you asked for?-Yes; I asked for the 7s. and he said he would give it to me.

1695. Did you take 4s. or 5s, worth of goods at the same time?- Yes; or perhaps more.

1696. And the rest in a line?-Yes.

Lerwick, January 3, 1872, JEMIMA SANDISON, examined.

1697. Are you a knitter in Lerwick?-Yes.

1698. Do you knit with your own wool?-No.

1699. Do you knit for merchants in the town?-Yes; for Mr. Robert Sinclair.

1700. Have you a pass-book?-Yes. [Produces it.]

1701. Do you deal with Mr Sinclair in the way which has been described already by the Witnesses you have heard?-No.

1702. Do you deal in a different way?-Yes.

1703. How is that? You get wool from him to knit into shawls or veils?-Yes; chiefly veils.

1704. The goods you get are entered in the passbook you have produced, and the goods given in are entered at the end of it?- Yes.

1705. Are the goods supplied to you always goods which you are requiring for your own use?-Yes.

1706. You do not sell any of them, or get them for your neighbours?-No; unless such goods as my own family require.

1707. Do you live with your own family?-Yes; with my mother.

1708. Do you get part of the payment for your shawls and veils in money?-Yes; whenever I ask money I get it. I never asked a shilling from Mr. Sinclair himself but that I always got it.

1709. When you got money for a shawl, how was it entered in the book?-I cannot say anything about that.

1710. If you were to take two veils to Mr. Sinclair and ask the money for them, do you think you would get it?-I cannot say, because I never asked it; but whenever I asked for a small quantity of money, such as 2s. or the like of that, I got it.

1711. What quantity of goods did you generally take at a time?-I cannot say that either. I don't think I ever had money to get out of his book. I was always due him something, and in that way I could not ask him for money.

1712. Then your account was larger than the value of the articles which you took to him?-Yes.

1713. If that was so, did you ever ask him for money at all?-Yes; sometimes, when I was in a strait for money I asked him for a little, and I got it.

1714. Then that was an advance, which he made when there was nothing due to you?-Yes; I have asked him for money when I was due him.

1715. But you don't know how that was entered in the pass-book, or whether it was entered there at all?-No; I don't think it was entered.

1716. I see there are entries in your pass-book: April 28, 1871, cash 1s.; April 26, cash 6d.: is that the way the money was entered?-Yes.

1717. There is an entry of worsted, 5d. was that worsted given to you for the purpose of knitting shawls to Mr. Sinclair?-I asked for worsted to buy, and I got it to knit for myself, and to sell again.

1718. Then it is entered in the pass-book just as goods?-Yes.

1719. Is there any difficulty made about giving you worsted in that way and entering it in the pass-book?-No; whenever I ask for worsted, I get it the same as any other thing out of the shop.

1720. Were you ever told that worsted was a money article?-No; I never was told that, so far as I can remember.

1721. Have you dealt in any other shop than Mr. Sinclair's in this way?-No; I have knitted for two and a half years for Mr, Sinclair.

1722. And always in the same way?-Yes.

1723. Are you a North Unst woman?-Yes.

1724. Do you live in Lerwick by yourself?-I live with my mother and my two sisters in a room.

1725. Does your mother knit?-No; she spins.

1726. Does she spin your wool?-No; she gets wool from other people to spin, and gets money for her work. She only spins for those who employ her.

1727. Does she spin for the shops?-No; she spins generally for ladies in the town, who employ her to make worsted for them.

1728. Ask her employers altogether ladies, not merchants?-They are just merchants' wives, and ladies in the town-chiefly Dr. Cowie's lady.

Lerwick, January 3, 1872, MRS ANN ARCUS, examined.

1729. You are a dresser in Lerwick?-Yes.

1730. How do you carry on that business? What is the nature of it?-I sometimes make shawls myself, and sell them. There [producing it] is a line of mine, which I got from Mr. Sinclair.

1731. Do you dress shawls or make them?-I dress shawls, and sometimes I make them or get them made.

1732. What is the dressing business?-Washing the shawls, and stretching them on the grass, and mending [Page 34] them and making them ready for the market. The stitches sometimes give way when they are stretched and then I mend them.

1733. Do you also bleach the shawls?-We whiten them with brimstone.

1734. You do that before stretching them on the grass?-Yes.

1735. That is part of the washing process?-Yes.

1736. Does every shawl, after being knitted require to be so dressed before it is sold?-Yes.

1737. The merchants don't buy shawls until after they are dressed?-No.

1738. Are your transactions in dressing shawls always with the knitters, or are they sometimes with the merchants?-Sometimes they are with the merchants, and sometimes with the knitters.

1739. Then the merchants do buy shawls undressed?-No; they do not buy them undressed, but they send some shawls out to be worked for themselves; and it is these shawls I dress for them

1740 In that way a knitter who works for a merchant has nothing to do with you?-No.

1741. When she has knitted a shawl with wool supplied by the merchant, she takes it to the merchant, and he sends it to you to be dressed?-Yes.

1742. It is only the knitters who work with their own wool who come to you?-Yes.

1743. Do you also buy shawls from knitters yourself?-No; but I get shawls made in the same way as the merchants do, and then I sell them.

1744. To whom do you sell them?-To the merchants.

1745. Do you send any shawls south?-No.

1746. Do you sometimes sell knitted articles to the merchants on behalf of the knitters?-Yes.

1747. When a knitter brings you a shawl to dress, I suppose she pays you in money?-Yes.

1748. What is the usual for that?-There are different charges, according to the size of the shawl; but for the general run of them it is 6d.

1749. And that is always paid by the knitter to you in money?- Yes.

1750. In what way is it that you are sometimes asked to sell articles for the knitters?-Because I cannot always have them dressed and ready for them to sell after the time they come in with the goods and before they go away again. These women come from the country, and I cannot have their things ready before they want to go home again; and therefore I sell them for them before they come back.

1751. You sell them as their agent?-Yes.

1752. And then you account to them for the price?-Yes. I get the price from some of the merchants, but others mark it in their books, and don't give lines. These merchants mark down the price of the shawl, and the name of the woman who owns it.

1753. And she, when she comes to the merchant again, arranges with him as to the price?-Yes.

1754. Is it within your knowledge that these shawls are always paid for in goods?-The country girls don't want money, and don't ask it. It is always clothing they need, and they get it.

1755. Then they just knit for the purpose of supplying themselves with clothing?-Yes.

1756. How is it that they don't want money?-They have some other way of doing at home, and I suppose they only want their clothing from the shops in Lerwick.

1757. Then the knitting with them is an extra sort of employment?-Yes; it is not exactly a livelihood for them.

1758. Is that the case with the town girls too?-No; they generally depend on their knitting for a living.

1759. Do they regard it as a hardship not to get money?-I can only speak for myself, not for them. When I have a shawl of my own, and ask some money on it, I get it.

1760. Do the town girls come to you to sell their articles for them?-No; they sell their own work themselves. I dress the shawls for them, and they get the price themselves-sometimes in money I suppose, to pay me with.

1761. You think they get sufficient money for their shawls from the merchants, to pay your charge?-They get money somewhere to pay me with: whether it is their own money or not I don't know. I don't take anything but money.

1762. You give them credit sometimes until their shawl is sold?- Yes.

1763. And then they come back you with the charge for dressing?-Yes.

1764. You shown me a line: where did you get it?-I got it in Mr. Robert Sinclair's shop-I think from his clerk.

1765. When?-When I sold my shawl-a shawl of my own, which I knitted myself.

1766. You did not want anything particular at the time, and therefore you took the line: was that so?-No. I asked him for a little money on the shawl, and I got it; and then I got the line, so that I could buy what I required afterwards as I needed it.

1767. Did you ask for money?-Yes; I asked for a little, and I got the sum which is marked on the line as having been paid to me in cash.

1768. He gave you 6s. in cash?-Yes.

1769. Was that all you wanted?-Yes. I did not ask for that sum, I only said I wanted a little money, he gave that.

1770. The line, is in these terms: 'C Z 91-Cr. bearer value in goods twenty six shillings 26s. stg. 'To cash 6s; to Vict. tartan 4s. 7d. ' ' White cotton, 6d.; wincey, 2s. 10d. ' ' Grey cotton, 6d. 'R. SINCLAIR & CO. 'C. S. '28.12.71'

This was last Thursday?-Yes.

1771. Was the shawl with your own?-Yes.

1772. Then it was just a sale to Mr. Sinclair?-Yes.

1773. You got 6s. in cash and 8s. 5d. in goods, and the rest is still due?-Yes, for me to get when I require it.

1774. Is that a usual way of doing business in Lerwick?-Yes; but I have got the whole of the price in money from a merchant for a shawl when asked for it-not for myself, but for a country girl.

1775. From whom have you got it all in money?-From Mr William Johnston. The price was 20s.

1776. Is he a hosiery dealer, just in the same way as Sinclair & Co., and Mr. Laurenson, and Mr. Linklater?-Yes. I have had money from them all whenever I asked for it.

1777. Would the women get money from them if they were selling the shawls themselves?-I cannot answer for that. I don't know that they would.

1778. Is it not the fact that the reason why you are sometimes asked to sell shawls for these women is that you can get the money for them?-I don't ask any money for the country girls at all; they never asked me to seek it.

1779. Do not the girls employ you to sell their shawls because they think you may get some money from the merchants, when they would not?-It is just because they think I can get a better price; at least that is what I think is the reason. They don't bid me get money.

1780. Do you think the merchants give you a better price?-They think so.

1781. Perhaps you can make a better bargain for them?-They have that idea.

1782. Have you never been asked by a country girl to sell a shawl for her and to get money for it?-Never.

1783. Then, on the occasions when you have got money, it has been for shawls which you have sold either for yourself or for town girls?-Yes, but particularly for my self.

1784. Have you sold them for town girls, and got money for them?-No; I have never asked money for any person but myself, and I have always got it.

[Page 35]

1785. How many shawls may you sell for yourself in the course of a year?-Sometimes there may be two.

1786. May there sometimes be three?-I could not tell the number particularly, but I have always one or two in the course of the twelvemonth.

1787. I suppose you are chiefly engaged with your dressing business, and have not much time to knit shawls?-Yes; the dressing is my only way of living.

1788. Are you a widow?-Yes.

1789. Have you often got lines similar to the one you have now produced?-Yes. Whenever I sell a shawl to Mr. Sinclair I get these lines, and then I give them to the girls to whom the shawls belong.

1790. Then they don't always want the value of their shawls in goods, but they sometimes take a line-Yes; and they keep it until they want something else. They are always served with what they want when they come with a line.

1791. You have not a pass-book with any of the merchants?-No.

1792. I suppose pass-books are only used where girls knit with the merchants wool?-Yes.

1793. Do you keep a pass-book with any of the merchants for the shawls which you dress for them?-No; I just get the money.

1794. Are you paid for them at the time?-Yes.

1795. Will the merchant send you a large consignment of shawls at a time to be dressed?-Yes; sometimes he may send a good lot.

1796. And you return the lot you have got when they are finished, and get paid for them when you return them?-Yes; in money.

1797. There is nothing entered in any book between you about that?-No.

1798. Are you the largest dresser in Lerwick?-I don't know that I am.

1799. Are there any others in the business?-Yes; there are a good many.

1800. Do they live mostly at the Docks?-No; there are one or two dressers who live at the Docks. They don't do so much as I do, but Mr. Sinclair has dressers of his own who do more than I.

1801. Does he pay them day's wages?-No; I think he pays them just as they work for him. The veils, neckties, and scarfs go by dozens.

1802. Is that the way you charge for these things?-I charge 11s. 6d. for a dozen veils, and the same for a dozen neckties or scarfs. I charge 6d. for every shawl, sometimes 3d. or 4d. if it is small, or 1s. if it is a very fine one.

1803. Have you ever sold shawls to any people except merchants?-I have.

1804. Do you sometimes sell to private ladies?-Yes, and gentlemen too.

1805. Do you sell to visitors in summer, and to people living in Lerwick?-Yes.

1806. Do you consider you are likely to get a better bargain with them than with the merchants?-I get the money from them.

1807. But you have no reason for dealing with them for the purpose of getting the money, because you say you get money from the merchants if you ask it?-Yes; but if a gentleman comes and asks me for a shawl, he has nothing to give me except the money, and I get it all in money then.

1808. Would you rather do with a gentleman or lady in that way than with a merchant?-It is only sometimes that they can take a shawl in that way; but the merchant always takes them.

1809. But would you prefer to deal with strangers rather than with the merchants?-If they were always here, I should like it very well.

1810. That is because you get a better bargain, and you are sure to get all money?-Yes.

1811. Is it not rather a favour to you that the merchant gives you money when you ask it?-I don't know whether it is a favour to me, but I always get it when I ask it. But I don't have such a great run of shawls as some of the other women have.

1812. It is rather out of your ordinary way to be selling shawls?- Yes; but when I do make one and ask money, I get it.

1813. Have you ever got the whole price of a shawl in money?- Yes.

1814. From the whole of merchants you have named?-No, only from Mr. Johnston; and that was for a country girl, because she was in need of it.

1815. That was a case in which you went out of your usual way, because the girl required it?-Yes.

1816. Have you asked the whole money from any of the other merchants?-No, I never did.

1817. You have only asked a part of it in money?-Yes.

1818. On a shawl worth 25s. that you were selling for yourself or for a girl, how much might you, in a general way, ask in money?- I have got as high as 10s. or 7s. 6d. or 5s., just as I asked it.

1819. But you never thought of asking the whole price of it in money?-No; but I was always requiring something that the merchants had to give me.

1820. Supposing you had a shawl to sell, would you give it to a merchant for a lower price if he paid it down in cash, than if he paid you in goods for it?-Yes; if I was requiring the cash, I would.

1821. Would you not do it in any case?-I would be glad of the money, certainly.

1822. Do you think it would be worth while for the knitters, as a rule, to take a less price for their shawls and to get money for them, rather than to go on in the present way?-I don't know about that. For my own part, I should like if the people were to get part of both-both money and articles. Nobody can live without articles; and it is just as well to get them from the merchants who buy our shawls, as to get the money.

1823. But if the merchants did pay all the price of the shawls in money, it would just come back to them, because, as you say very truly, people cannot do without some of the merchants' goods, and the money would return to them in payment for their goods. Don't you think, that would be a better system for all parties than the present?-Those who need money would like to get it; but some people don't stand so much in need of money as others. For instance, if I were knitting shawls only, I would need most of the price in money, because I have no other way of living but I don't mean to say that girls who work merely for the sake of getting clothing, require to get the whole price in money.

1824. But suppose they got all the price of their work in money, might it not be easier for them to make the purchases of the goods they require?-They would not get so much for their shawls then; they could not expect it.

1825. That is because the merchant makes a profit upon the goods he sells, as well as upon the shawls?-Yes.

1826. Are you aware whether it is a common thing in Lerwick, to sell shawls cheaper for money than they would be given for goods?-Yes, any person who required money would rather sell a shawl for 1s. or 2s. less, in order to get it.

1827. Have you often seen that done?-Yes.

1828. Have you often done that yourself on behalf of the country girls?-Yes.

1829. You mentioned a case where you got the whole price of a shawl in money from Mr. Johnston: did you, in that case, say you would give it for 2s. or 3s. less if you could get the whole price in money?-Yes; because the girl required it, and told me to do that. She wanted the money to pay her rent with.

1830. Was the price you got a fair price for the shawl?-It was at that time.

1831. Is there anything else you wish to say on this subject?-I have only to say that I think the girls ought to be very thankful to the merchants, for they have done more for them than any one in the place has done yet. They have bought their work, and then they have gone and distributed it throughout the country. This knitted work is not worn here; but the merchants have got a market for it, and therefore I think the girls ought to be very grateful to them.

[Page 36]

1832. Do you think they would not have got a market for their goods themselves?-No; plenty of them would never have been able to have gone to the market, even if they had thought of it.

1833. How long is it since that trade became general here?-I can hardly tell; I was a little girl when it began. The first shawl I made I got 7s. 6d. for, and I was very proud of it.

1834. How much would you get for that now?-They would not buy such a thing now, the work was so open. I can just recollect of it. I don't think I was much more than ten years at the time. I sold it to Mr. Harrison, and he and Mr. Laurenson were about the first who began to buy them. We got groceries and everything we wanted then for our shawls.

1835. You do not get these things now, because the merchants who buy the shawls don't have them?-They have them all except groceries.

1836. With regard to the girls in town who sell the shawls to merchants and get only goods in return, how do they do for a living?-Some girls live with their parents, and can do very well.

1837. But a number of them live in rooms by themselves, and perhaps have a parent or some other person to support out of their earnings: how do they generally do for their food?-I can hardly answer that. I don't know how they do; but I know that some of the girls that I am in the habit of dressing the shawls for, come and tell me they have sold a shawl today, and what they got for it, and that they have got some money. Some of the merchants give them money, and some of them tea, and worsted to knit another shawl with; and that is just money.

1838. But if they have to make shawl with the worsted, they cannot turn it into provisions?-No; but they will make another shawl.

1839. And they may get 1s. or 2s. in money?-Yes.

1840. But if they only get 1s. or 2s. on each shawl, that is not sufficient either to pay their house rent or to supply them with provisions?-No; but I think there are some of them who may get a shawl sold for all money, and then that pays the rent.

1841. They do happen to get that occasionally?-Yes; some lady who wants one for a present to a friend might buy it from them. That is the only way I can think of in which they can get their provisions; but if it was the case that the merchants had groceries in their shops, people would not require very much money, and then they would get their livelihood.

1842. What kind of goods do you generally get for your country girls in exchange for their shawls?-I do not buy them; they buy them for themselves.

1843. You get lines, and they choose the goods for themselves when they next come to town?-Yes.

1844. In that way you do not know what they get?-No; but I always hear them say that they got very good bargains, and they are generally well pleased.

1845. You say shawls are sometimes sold to a lady or gentleman passing through the town; I suppose, in that case, there will be two prices for them?-No.

1846. Would you ask from them the same price that you get from the merchant in goods?-We might ask it, but, seeing the money, we might give the shawl for less. Some people don't ask to have the price reduced, but others do.

1847. You just make the best bargain you can, in each case?-Yes.

Lerwick, January 3, 1872, Mrs. ELIZABETH MOODIE, examined.

1848. Are you in the habit of knitting for any one in Lerwick?- Yes; for Mr. Sinclair.

1849. Has any one asked you to come and give evidence here to-day?-Yes; I was summoned.

1850. Did any one ask you besides that?-No.

1851. Do you knit with your own wool, or is it with wool supplied to you by Mr. Sinclair?-Partly both, I generally have a shawl of my own in hand, but I always knit for Mr. Sinclair.

1852. Do you keep a pass-book?-No; I never had a pass-book with him.

1853. Are you paid in the same way both for your own shawls that you sell, and for those that you knit for him?-No; generally when I knit a shawl for Mr. Sinclair, he allows me so much for the knitting of it; but when I sell a shawl, I price it myself.

1854. Is that price paid in the same way that the wages are paid to you for knitting?-No.

1855. Is it paid to you in money in both cases; or in goods?-It is paid in goods in both cases.

1856. Is there not a certain part of it, in both cases, that you can get money for?-Yes. When I knitted for Mr. Sinclair before I was married, he generally gave me money whenever I asked for it; but since I had a house of my own, I generally manage my affairs so that I do not have to ask him for money. I usually take clothes for my children and myself from him without getting money at all; but if I did ask him for money, I have no doubt he would give it to me.

1857. Have you always got money when you asked for it?-Yes; whenever I asked I got it.

1858. Do you generally take the whole value of your shawls in goods?-Yes, I always do.

1859. And no money passes between you at all?-No, not since I was married; but previously, when I asked him for money, I always got it.

1860. Did you generally ask for a considerable part of the price of your shawls in money?-Yes.

1861. How much might you get out of a 20s. shawl, for instance?- Perhaps I might have asked him for 2s. or 2s, 6d., and so on, money.

1862. Would that be about the usual thing?-Yes; that was generally about the usual thing.

1863. Did you ever get the whole price of a shawl or of any hosiery goods in money?-No; I never asked it.

1864. Do you live at home with your people, or did you live by yourself before you were married?-I lived at home with my father.

1865. So that you did not require any money with which to purchase food for yourself?-No.

1866. You merely knitted to supply yourself with dress, or whatever you wanted for yourself?-Yes.

1867. Did you require for your dress all the payments you received for your knitting?-No, I cannot say that I required it all for myself. I might have supplied some of my brothers or sisters with any little thing they wanted.

1868. Did they repay you for that, or did you make a present of it to them?-I generally made a present of it to them, as I was at home.

1869. Would you have preferred to have been paid wholly in money?-I should prefer to be paid part of both, if I could manage it.

1870. Would you prefer to get half the price in money?-Yes, I would like that very well.

1871. Could you not get one half of it in money if you asked for it?-I believe if I had asked for it I could have got it, but I did not ask it.

1872. Then, if you preferred it, why did you not ask for it?-I told you I managed my affairs in such a way that I did not need it.

1873. But you said you would have preferred to have had half of it in money?-Provided I could have got it, I should have liked it very well; but I did not ask that.

1874. Why did you not ask it? Do you think there would have been a difficulty in getting it?-I don't know; I only know that I never asked for one half of it in money.

1875. Why?-I generally took a line for what remained to me upon a shawl. I might have got the money instead of a line, but I did not ask it.

1876. You have taken lines sometimes?-Yes, I generally took them.

1877. Have you any of these lines have none just now?-No, I have none just now.

1878. When you get a line, do you always take it [Page 37] back to the shop, and get goods?-Yes; I sometimes take it back to the shop.

1879. What do you do with it at other times?-Sometimes a friend may require a line from me, and give me money for it.

1880. If you were selling your goods for ready money, would you take a less price for them?-Sometimes I have seen me take a shilling or so less if it was all money.

1881. But you said you never got the whole price of a shawl in money?-Occasionally I sold a shawl to a stranger in the place in the summer time, and I might give it to him for a shilling less.

1882. Do you generally get a smaller price when you sell to a stranger in that way?-Perhaps I may sometimes have asked a smaller price, as it was the money I was to get.

1883. If you wanted the money, why did you not, when selling your shawls to a merchant, ask him for the ready money, and take 1s. or 2s. less?-I don't know. I never thought of that.

1884. Was it not because it was not the practice here to give money?-Yes; that is the truth.

1885. Of course a shawl which you sold to a stranger in that way would be one knitted with your own worsted which you had bought?-Yes.

1886. Do you always pay ready money for your worsted?- Always.

1887. Do you always buy your worsted from the merchants in town?-Sometimes; and sometimes, when the country people come down, they have worsted with them, and I buy it from them too.

1888. Is the price the same in both cases?-Yes, always.

1889. If you were selling a shawl to a merchant and taking goods, and if you asked to have part of the goods in worsted, is there any objection made to that way of dealing?-No; I never heard any objection made to that.