8042. Is that not the case with all?-It is not universally the case,

8043. Therefore there are not only two prices for hosiery, but there are two prices for goods bought with hosiery?-Yes; in some places there are.

8044. Are you aware of that from your, own knowledge, or is it merely from a complaint among the women?-It is a complaint among the women, and I think there is justice in it.

8045. That is, if it exists?-Yes; and I think it does exist in some places.

8046. Are you aware from your own knowledge that it does exist?-I think I am pretty certain of it.

8047. Do you think a system of credit payments and of paying for hosiery by goods has the effect of raising the prices of goods upon the whole community?-I don't think the hosiery has any effect of that description at all, so far as I know, but I think the credit system must have that effect in a greater or less degree. Under that system I think the credit which is most hopelessly given is in meal. The fish-curer often finds himself in the greatest difficulty with a family who are perhaps in want, and have no means to purchase meal. In that case he is frequently obliged, out of compassion, to give out meal for which he hardly expects to receive anything; or if he does, it is a long time before it comes.

8048. In such a case is the fisherman not under a sort of obligation to fish for that merchant during the next year, and until his debt is liquidated?-I think he is under such an obligation, but in some cases it takes a long fishing before the debt is liquidated.

8049. Do you think it is wholesome for a man to be under such a permanent obligation to fish for the same party?-I don't think it is wholesome for either party. But there is no help for it.

8050. Does that produce a spirit of submission and dependence on the part of the fishermen towards the merchant?-I don't know, but to some extent it must.

8051. Have you known any case in which that became very evident?-I cannot say. I could not name any particular case.

8052. You have not been struck by that in the course of your experience?-No. I have a considerable amount of acquaintance both here and in the north part of the islands of Shetland, and I cannot say that I have been struck with any such spirit of dependence. In the nature of things, however, it must exist more or less. But, in my opinion, the better way to get rid of it would be for the people to grow their own meal, and require less of it to be supplied to them.

8053. Do you mean that it would be an advantage if they required to purchase less meal than they do now?-Yes. I cannot see how the system can be got rid of, unless the people are able to cultivate their land, and grow their own meal.

8054. Therefore you are inclined to recommend a system of agricultural improvement as the best thing for Shetland?-Yes.

8055. Could that be effected without a separation between the fishing and the farming?-I think so. I think if people were placed in such security that they knew they were working for themselves, so that they could spend every day or every hour that they had leisure in improving their small crofts of land, they might grow half as much again as they do at present.

8056. Even upon their small holdings?-Yes; upon the greater number of their small holdings.

8057. And with spade labour?-Yes, with the spade, and the pick and shovel, such as the men can manage for themselves.

8058. Is not that a very antiquated way of cultivating the ground?-It may be antiquated, but I don't think there is any better way coming into operation.

8059. Is there not ploughing?-Ploughing won't because, if the ground of which these small crofts is composed is not broken up with the pick, it is of very little consequence to plough it. I could show examples of that in different parts of Shetland. Land ploughed is not half the value of land trenched, and the fisherman might trench a bit of land during winter for himself, and in the course of a few years grow all that he required, or the next thing to it, without costing the proprietor or anybody else anything.

8060. Would he grow a much heavier crop on land cultivated in that way with the spade, than a large farmer would if he ploughed his fields?-Yes, a much larger crop than a large farmer would if he ploughed that same field. I have not the slightest doubt of that.

8061. Are you speaking now from your own observation of both systems in Shetland?-I am.

8062. Do you know cases where an intelligent and active small crofter, cultivating in the way you have described with the spade, has grown heavier crops than a farmer, equally active and equally intelligent, has grown with plough cultivation?-Yes, upon the same kind of ground.

8063. Was that in this neighbourhood?-Yes.

8064. And the circumstances in both cases being exactly the same, except the difference between spade and plough cultivation?-I think the difference in that case would certainly be in favour of the larger cultivator; because I think the agricultural intelligence should be in favour of a man who works with the plough.

8065. You think the intelligence was perhaps superior in that case?-I think it was superior, and the crop inferior.

8066. Is that a thing which you have frequently observed?-Not very frequently, because land is not very frequently cultivated in the way I have mentioned, as the parties cultivating it, or who should cultivate it, don't have any security. They don't know who they are working for. There is a man pretty near me (Mr Gifford knows him), who has been cultivating in the way I have mentioned, and there is another man pretty near here who is cultivating in the way that you speak of, and there is no comparison whatever between the crops.

8067. Then is the remedy you suggest, a system of lease-holding?-Yes.

8068. Is there any reason why that does not exist in Shetland already?-I don't know any particular reason for it.

8069. Have the tenants in many places not been offered leases?-In some cases they have been offered leases, and I believe they have refused them, but I don't know for what reason.

8070. Have you any observation to make upon the subject of fixing the price of the fishermen's catch at the end of the season?-I have no observation to make on that subject, for I am not able to see how far it would be to the advantage of the fisherman to fix the price beforehand. I don't think it would be an advantage to him; indeed, I think the fisherman would be greater loser by a fixed price than he is just now.

8071. Is that because he would still have to obtain his supplies on credit?-Not so much that; but for one thing, the merchant's or fish-curer's knowledge of what the market is likely to be, is ahead of that of the fisherman; and I think it holds good more or less, by common sense, that the merchant should try to secure safety for himself in the bargain which he makes. The probability therefore is, that the fisherman would suffer more in that case than he does at present.

8072. You think the merchant has better means of foreseeing the course of the markets than the fishermen?-I think so; and although I believe the merchants hereabouts would generally give the men all the advantage they could, I cannot see how it would be possible that by fixing the price beforehand the fisherman would be the gainer.

8073. Is there any reason to suppose that the fishermen have not a sufficient voice in fixing what the current price is to be at the end of the season?-I don't think the fishermen have any voice in that at all, and I don't know how far the merchant or fish-curer [Page 197] has either. It must be regulated by the south-country markets.

8074. Would it be any advantage to the fishermen in your neighbourhood to have periodical payments up to a certain amount of their catch, leaving the balance to be fixed, and the price also, or a portion of it to be fixed at the end of the season?-I don't think that would be any advantage, and there is one disadvantage which would certainly follow such a system. There are some men who will take care of their money, pay it to them when you like; but those who take least care of it would spend it as they got it, and the merchants having paid ready money to them, there would be nobody who would advance anything to them when they wished to pay their land-rent or other debts.

8075. Are these careless men not equally apt, under the present system, to take too much in goods, and to exhaust their earnings too early?-Perhaps they are, but there is some check upon them under the present system, whereas if they got the money in their own hands there would be none.

8076. What is the check upon them?-The merchant himself will be a check, if a man is running an account which he is not likely to meet. I am not able to say how far the system you have suggested would be an advantage to the people. It might be an advantage, but I cannot see it.*

* The following letter was afterwards addressed to the Commissioner by Mr. Fraser:- SULLAM, 18 1872. W. GUTHRIE, Esq. SIR,-You will perhaps allow me to supplement the evidence gave at Brae the other day by a few notes. I did not bring out all I wished to say on the credit system. It would require more time than could than be allowed to one witness, and more writing than I would like to trouble you with now, to explain it fully.

Credit has become almost a necessity in Shetland in the present condition of the islands and it has gone on so long that the moral ton of society has suffered in consequence of it. The present fish-curers and merchants have not created the system; it existed before them, and they have taken it up as a necessary evil.

Shetland fisherman may be divided into three classes. The first class are free men. They have never been in debt, and hope never to be. The second class, under the present circumstances, come in debt, but they don't like it, and get out of it as soon as they can. The third class do not seem to have any particular dislike to it. When the Commissioner asked me at Brae if I had known men lose their independence by coming in debt, or something like that, I had this class in my mind, and I was puzzled what to say. I think the loss must have been sustained long, long ago, for they have always appeared to me as a party who never had anything of the sort to lose.

The moral evils of the system to this class need not be mentioned. I will name one or two of its physical effects.

1. It largely increases pauperism, by raising a false standard by which to regulate one's expenditure. When one of this class falls from earning, he is fit only for the Parochial Board.

2. In case of a boat accident, or in a season like 1869, the prospect is most appalling. In that year the crop was very largely a failure; many of the people had gone as deep in debt as they could go; and but for the aid sent by the Society of Friends, some of the people would assuredly have died, and a still larger number could not have sown their ground. The timely aid sent by the Friends and those whom they enlisted with them in their benevolent work, prevented both these consequences.

There are not a few families in Shetland-bereaved families, I mean-supported by funds supplied by the benevolence of south country ladies and gentlemen, who otherwise must have starved, or fall with a crushing weight upon the Parochial Boards.

Now, for all this, so far as I know, there is only one remedy- the improvement of the soil. The people are cultivating just the same ground their did, and most of the ground now cultivated has never rested in the memory of living man, or perhaps as long before. New earth is made to supply the yearly waste, and thus the ground in the neighbourhood of a few small farms is so robbed as to be rendered useless for generations, unless it happens to have earth enough to allow of laying down the surface, and a proprietor or factor who binds the people to do it.

There is, in general, plenty of unreclaimed land lying close by these small farms which might be broken up and brought under crop, and some of the old allowed to rest. In some places there are plenty of stones to hedge in a small croft of land where grass might be sown, but nothing is done. That unreclaimed land is made to do duty by keeping life in a few cows-two, or more. During the summer season, the merchant supplies the meal as long as he can, and so things continue its they are. No man who may receive a forty days', or even a six months', warning, is likely to exert himself to bring more ground under crop. The thing wanted is leasehold of the property by the tenant. But I am told the tenants will not take a lease. It may be so; but before the statement be admitted as true, the sort of lease offered them would require to be seen. There are leases offered which no man of common sense would take. There is property in Shetland, and plenty of it, that in a 19 years lease could be made 50 per cent. better than it is, and be a better bargain then, than now. And all this might be done without costing the proprietor one shilling. Let him give it lease on reasonable terms.

There is just one thing more I would like to state. I am referring to the evidence given last year before the Commissioner in Edinburgh, it was then stated by Mr. Walker, that the hills were doing the people no good, and therefore he had taken them from them. The latter part of this statement is true, but on the former part of it I would beg to say, the native sheep reared on these hills supply material for knitting, and the female part of the population are clad almost entirely from that source alone. Then the female members of the house generally provide during the winter months warm underclothing for the fisherman, without which he could not pursue his hazardous occupation. Bedclothes are also largely supplied from the same source. Leave all these to be supplied by the fisherman from his scanty earnings, and it requires no prophet to foretell the result.

To say that the hills were doing the people no good, either manifests great ignorance of the subject, or something worse.-I am, Sir, your most obedient servant, James Fraser.

Brae, January 13, 1872, THOMAS GIFFORD, examined,

8077. You are the factor on the estate of Busta?-I am.

8078. I believe that is the largest estate in Shetland?-I believe it is.

8079. What is the rental?-2700.

8080. Are there any leases on the estate?-Yes, there are a good many.

8081. Are these of the small holdings or of the large holdings only?-There are leases of both.

8082. Do the majority of the fishermen tenants have leases?-Not the majority.

8083. Or a considerable number?-I could hardly say there are a considerable number; only a small number, I think.

8084. I understand that the tenants on the Busta estate are entirely free to fish for any person with whom they may choose to engage?-Yes; and a great many of them go south and follow different employments,

8085. How many large mercantile establishments or shops are there on the Busta property which are held by fish-curers?-Four. There is one at Voe, one at Brae, one at Hillswick, and one at Lochend (Mr. Laurenson's).

8086. I presume these are all the large establishments of that kind in the district of Delting and Northmaven, except the shop at Mossbank?-No; Messrs. Hay & Company have one at North Roe, at the very farthest extremity of Northmaven, and then there are fishing stations at Stenness and Feideland.

8087. But at these stations the fishermen are all employed by one or other of the merchants whose places of business you have enumerated?-Yes.

8088. And all these merchants hold their shops under the Busta trustees?-Yes.

8089. Have they all leases?-Yes.

8090. Can you tell me from recollection what the rents of these shops are?-The shops are not separately rented; they are let along with farms in every case.

8091. The merchants are not tacksmen of any tenants, but they have farms?-Yes; merely their own farms.

8092. Is there any prohibition to sub-let on these farms?-Yes; in every case.

8093. What are the rents of these four parties?-327 for the four.

8094. In the district from Busta extending to the march of the Gossaburgh property at North Roe, is the greater part of the land under your management?-Yes.

8095. The greater part of it belongs to the Busta estate?-Yes; three-fourths of it perhaps.

8096. Is there any understanding with the four merchants you have mentioned, that no other shops than theirs shall be opened upon your property?-No, a shop can be opened at any place.

8097. Have you objected in any case to the opening of shops, lest it should interfere with the business of these lessees?-I have not. There are several shops that have been opened lately.

8098. Were these small shops?-Yes; there was one you passed at the head of the voe going to Hillswick.

[Page 198]

8099. Is that Arthur Harrison's?-Yes; and there is one opposite it again, on the Roenessvoe side.

8100. Is there any apprehension on the part of the Busta trustees lest the rent paid by the larger establishments should be reduced by the opening of smaller shops?-None.

8101. Is it not the case that some difficulty was put in the way of Harrison opening his shop?-I believe something was said about it, but there was no reality in it.

8102. There was an objection made to it at first, was there not?- Yes; I believe there was some objection made, but there is nothing in the lease that could prevent it in any way.

8103. Nothing in what lease?-Nothing in Mr. Anderson's lease binding us to refuse, and nothing in any lease on the Busta property.

8104. Is there not an obligation in some of the leases of the tenants that no shops are to be opened on their holdings?-They are not allowed to open shops unless they ask permission. That is only to be done with the consent of the trustees.

8105. You say that Harrison was refused permission at first, but that shortly afterwards he was granted permission to open his shop?-I did not refuse him permission at first. Some other parties objected to him getting it, and said that no shops could be opened within a certain distance of Hillswick.

8106. Was it Mr. Anderson who objected?-Yes, I believe he did object.

8107. Was that by letter, or personally?-I don't think he objected to me by letter. He may have mentioned it to the trustees, or their agent, but his lease had been got some considerable time before Harrison thought of opening the shop, so that he knew he could not stop it.

8108. But he did object notwithstanding?-Yes; I think he objected at first when he was taking his lease. I think he wished it to be put in that way.

8109. The hesitation which existed about giving Harrison the lease, or the delay in agreeing to give him his lease, was due, I suppose, to Mr. Anderson's objection?-Harrison has got a lease.

8110. He has got it now, but it was refused, or at least delayed, when he first applied for it, was it not?-No; Harrison was only permitted to sell lately, but he had his lease before.

8111. But was not the permission to sell refused at first in consequence of Mr. Anderson objecting to it?-There was something said about it, but it was not practically refused.

8112. Had you had any communication with Mr. Adie before finally giving Harrison permission to sell?-None whatever.

8113. Neither verbally nor by letter?-Neither verbally nor by letter.

8114. Did you understand that Harrison was going to cure fish for Mr. Adie?-Yes; I understood he was going to cure fish for Mr. Adie, or any other body he could get them to cure for.

8115. And he informed you that he had made a contract with Mr. Adie for curing fish at the time when you granted the permission?-I think he went from Busta to Lerwick, and spoke to Mr. Harrison and some other fish-curers, and I believe he expected to get some from Mr. Harrison, and some from Mr. Adie; but so far as I am aware, he has only got them from Mr. Adie. But he was quite open to take them from any party he could make the best bargain with.

8116. Had you any letter from Mr. Anderson objecting to Harrison opening a shop?-No, so far as I am aware.

8117. You think he only wrote to some of the other trustees?-I am not aware that he has written a letter about it since he got his lease. I think he objected to it about the time he took his lease.

8118. But not at the time when Harrison was wanting to sell?- No; I think at the time when Mr. Anderson took his lease he wished it mentioned that no other party should be allowed to sell within four miles of him, but that was not entered in the lease.

8119. Then do you mean that no objection was made by Mr. Anderson to Harrison being allowed to sell goods at the time when he (Harrison) was applying for that permission?-There is no doubt Mr. Anderson may have objected to him, or to any other party, doing so, but he could not do it in any way so as to affect Harrison.

8120. Was that because the power of granting or refusing permission lay entirely with you?-I suppose so.

8121. But, in point of fact, did Mr. Anderson make no objection to you or to any of the Busta trustees, so far as you know, to Harrison being allowed to sell?-I am not aware whether he made any application to the trustees, or their agent. I know that he mentioned the matter more than once but that is all I know.

8122. He said that he thought Harrison should not get permission?-Yes; that is all he did. I am not aware that he wrote to the trustees on the subject after he got his lease.

8123. But he mentioned it to you when you met him personally?- Yes; he mentioned it more than once.

8124. And that was about the time when Harrison was applying for leave to open his shop?-Yes.

8125. I presume there is no understanding between the Busta trustees and any of the merchants whose establishments are upon the estate that these merchants are responsible for the rents of the men?-There is no understanding of the kind. There is not a single tenant on the Busta estate, out of the whole 480 on it, or out of the 530 with whom I have to do that any of the merchants is liable for, even as a cautioner. That used to be the case some time before but it has not been so for a long time.

8126. Do you know, in the course of your dealings with the tenants, whether there is any arrangement between the merchants you have named, or any of them, to the effect that when a man ceases to fish for one and has a debt due to him, the merchant who engages him must undertake that debt?-There is no such arrangement that I am aware of. Some years ago, I believe, that was done by some parties, but I don't think it is done by any of them now. I refer to the practice of a merchant when he engages men taking over the debt or part of the debt which they are due to their old employer.

8127. You don't know about that?-Yes, I know about it. I know that there was such an arrangement some years ago.

8128. I suppose if Mr. Anderson told you it not given up, you would be quite prepared to believe that that arrangement still exists?-I believe it was given up, because in most of the cases when a merchant took over a debt in that way, very little of the old debt was paid. I have known parties take over with debts of 15 and 20 standing against them, and these debts never were reduced.

8129. Had you any concern with that arrangement yourself?- None whatever. I merely heard of it.

8130. I believe most of the merchants or fish-curers are also dealers in cattle?-I believe they are, to some extent.

8131. They purchase them both privately and at the periodical sales which are held for each estate?-Yes.

8132. Would you describe shortly the nature of the sales that are held? They are held twice a-year, are they not?-Yes, twice a-year for the Busta and Ollaberry tenants, and they are sometimes held at North Roe for the Gossaburgh tenants. But there are always sales at Ollaberry and Mavisgrind, generally at the end of October, for the tenants cattle.

8133. What is the reason for having sales for these particular estates?-Merely to give the tenants the advantage of having their cattle sold. I am not aware any other reason than that. At the Busta sale cattle belonging to other parties are taken in, as well as cattle belonging to the tenants, although it is only for the benefit of the tenants on the estate that the sales are held.

8134. At these sales, are many of the cattle purchased [Page 199] by the merchants?-A good many. With reference to my former statement, that 327 is the rent of the four shops, I wish to explain that that is much short of what it should be. It is nearly 450 for the four; and my explanation of that is, that Mr. Adie has got a large park in connection with his premises, and Mr. Inkster and Mr. Anderson have the same at Brae and Hillswick, and they all require to buy extensively for their parks.

8135. Are you acquainted with the practice in this country of a creditor marking cattle, and holding them as a kind of security for debt?-Yes.

8136. Is that a common thing here?-I don't know if it is common; but I have known several cases where it has been done.

8137. I suppose that where a merchant does that it is not held to interfere with the landlord's hypothec or his rent?-No. The rents are generally paid before the merchants interfere in any way with the cattle.

8138. But when a merchant interferes with cattle in that way, or purchases them in at a sale, he buys them of course subject to the landlord's right?-If he buys them at a sale, he buys them direct off, and pays the money for them; but if he secures the animal privately, it generally remains with the party until it is taken away. In a transaction of that kind, the animal is priced, and it is removed at a convenient time for both parties. It does not come to a public sale at all.

8139. The animal, in that case, is retained by the tenant?-It is marked and priced and retained by the tenant, and taken over by the purchaser when he wants it.

8140. The cattle are priced the time they are pledged, or marked as it were?-I believe they are.

8141. Is that an arrangement between the merchant and the tenant?-Entirely.

8142. And they arrange the price between themselves, or does the merchant put the price on the cattle?-I think it is a mutual arrangement, because there is much competition for cattle, that the merchant must do that.

8143. Do you think there is any understanding between the merchants, that when a marked beast is exposed at any one of these periodical sales, the other merchants shall not bid against the merchant for whom the animal has been marked, but that it shall be knocked down to him?-I believe that very few of the marked animals are ever exposed at the sales, but I have known them exposed in some cases. I have known cattle being marked in that way, or pledged to Mr. Inkster at Brae; and if brought to the sale, they would have been entered in his name or in the name of the party who brought them, and the sellers would have got the full price.

8144. But more commonly, cattle that are so marked are taken over by the merchant himself privately?-Yes. I have known no other cases of parties bringing them to the sale, except Mr. Inkster.

8145. If a merchant does take over a beast in that way privately, I suppose you would still hold him responsible for the rent, if still unpaid, to the extent of the value of that beast, and if the period of your hypothec had not expired?-Certainly.

8146. Do you often have occasion to arrange with merchants in that sort of way?-No, very seldom. The rents are very generally paid up.

8147. Do you think the introduction of a system of short settlements, if it could be effected, would improve the character of the people on the Busta estate?-I believe it would.

8148. You would be in favour of such a system?-Certainly I would.

8149. From what you know of the country and of the people, do you think such a system would be practicable?-I don't know if it would be practicable in some cases. With regard to the fishermen, I don't think a short-settlement system would be practicable.

8150. Is that because the men are so much in need of advances at the beginning of the season?-Yes; they cannot get on until they receive advances. There would be no fishing at all if there were no advances.

8151. But under another system would advances be impracticable?-I don't know what that other system might be.

8152. Suppose the agreement was that the fishermen were to receive a bounty at the beginning of the season, which would enable them to equip themselves, and that the price for the fish was fixed at the end, so that the men would have the advantage of any rise that might take place, would that system be a better one than the present, in your opinion?-They would not have the advantage of the rise if the price were fixed.

8153. I am not supposing the price to be fixed. I am supposing the man to get a bounty which would be calculated very considerably within the probable value of his catch of fish for the season, and that the settlement was made at the end according to the market price when the fisherman would get anything additional that might be due?-I am not aware how that system might work.

8154. Have you any knowledge of the system adopted at Wick with regard to the herring fishery?-Yes. I know something about it.

8155. Is there not some system of that kind followed there?-I could not say just now.

8156. Do you think the system of paying for hosiery in goods is a good one?-No; I think it is a very bad system. I think the hosiery should be paid for in money, and the goods sold at the same price.

8157. Do you think the system has a bad effect in the separation of interests it creates between the different members of the same family?-I think it has a bad effect in this way, that some parties would be more careful if they had their money, whereas at the present time they don't have the chance of that.

8158. Does the same objection apply to the long settlements with the fishermen which you make with regard to the system of paying for the hosiery?-Yes. There is often a long settlement in the payment for the hosiery too. There is an account run for the payment of hosiery with many of the women. That would not signify so much if they were paid in cash when the settlement comes; but I am not aware that that is done, except perhaps in a few cases.

8159. Do you think women are induced under the present system to take more articles of dress than they require?-Not of dress.

8160. But they take anything they require unless money?-Some of them take provisions, and meal, and tea.

8161. In your part of the country, are provisions given for hosiery as well as goods?-Yes, and I know that hereabout a little cash is given too, but in very exceptional cases.*

*Mr. Gifford handed in the following statement, showing the number of holdings on the Busta and other estates under his charge and the amount of rent-

<No. of holdings on Busta. No. of holdings on other properties.>

Under 1 29 Under 1 2 " 2 38 " 2 2 " 3 53 " 3 5 " 4 83 " 4 4 " 5 101 " 5 8 " 6 92 " 6 9 " 7 86 " 7 8 " 8 19 " 8 4 " 9 11 " 9 4 " 10 2 " 12 2 " 12 7 " 14 1 " 14 4 Larger holdings 1 Larger holdings 5 50 480 Total rental, 2701 13 8 Total rental, 344 2 0

Brae, January 13, 1872, Mrs. CHRISTIAN JOHNSTON, examined.

8162. Are you the wife of a fisherman in Muckle Roe?-My husband was a fisherman once, but he does not fish now.

8163. Do you knit or weave?-I both knit and make gray cloth.

[Page 200]

8164. Do you sell both these articles at Brae or in Lerwick?-I sell them to any person that I get the wool from. I don't have wool of my own.

8165. By whom are you generally employed?-I have made some gray cloth for Mr. Anderson and some for Mr. Adie.

8166. Is it mostly gray cloth that you make?-Yes.

8167. Do you go to the shops and get the wool when you are out of it?-Yes.

8168. Do you buy it, or is it given to you?-We buy it.

8169. When you go back with it, are you paid for the work which you have put upon it?-We buy the wool, and then they buy the cloth from us again.

8170. What do you pay for the wool?-I bought 28 lbs. of it, and it was 1s. a lb.

8171. Do you spin it yourself?-Yes.

8172. How do you make the cloth?-There are men on the islands called wabsters who weave it.

8173. Then you spin the wool and take it to the wabsters to weave?-Yes.

8174. Do you pay for the wool when you get it at first?-We cannot pay for the wool until we get the cloth.

8175. Is it put down in your account?-Yes.

8176. And you are charged 1s. for it?-Yes.

8177. Do you take your web back to the merchant, or does the wabster take it to him?-I take the web and dress it, and go to the merchant with it.

8178. Who pays the wabster?-The merchant of course; it comes off what I have to get.

8179. Is the wabster paid at the time when he does the work, or when you come back from the merchant?-I pay him when I come back from the merchant after I have sold the cloth.

8180. How much cloth would you make out of 28 lbs. of wool?-I made 27 yards out of it.

8181. You make about a yard of cloth out of a pound of wool?- Yes; that is generally the way of it when it is ordinary wool.

8182. What is the price put upon the cloth when you take it back to the merchant?-That is just as the price stands; sometimes the price is up and sometimes not.

8183. But you spoke of a particular time when you got 28 lbs. of wool: was that long ago?-I got it in Christmas week, and I went back with it in the month of April.

8184. What did you get for it?-I got 2s. a yard.

8185. That would be 1s. a yard, for your work and the wabster?- Yes.

8186. Is that about an ordinary price?-It was the price that was given then.

8187. Do you sometimes get more than that?-Yes; if the price is up. I have got as high as 3s. 5d. for it.

8188. Was that long ago?-It is a few years since; I cannot recollect exactly.

8189. How are you paid for the cloth: do you get money for it?- Some pay in money and some not.

8190. Where do you get money?-I have got money in Mr. Adie's.

8191. Did you get money at that time when you went in April?- No.

8192. Why?-I don't know.

8193. What did you get?-I had just to take anything that was in the shop

8194. Were you told that you would not get money?-Yes.

8195. Did you want money?-Of course, I wanted a little.

8196. How much did you ask for?-I asked for the wabster's money. It was rather more than 6s.

8197. Did you get it?-Yes.

8198. Did you say you had to pay the wabster?-Yes; he was an old man, and I had to pay him.

8199. Why did you not get the rest in money?-The merchant made an objection that he would not.

8200. Why?-I don't know why.

8201. Did he say the bargain was that was to be paid in goods?- No, he could not say that.

8202. Why? Had you agreed upon a price before?-No.

8203. You were just to take the price that was the market price when you brought the cloth back?-Yes.

8204. Did you offer to take a less price if he gave the money?-He would give no money at all.

8205. Are you ever paid in money for your cloth?-Yes. I have been paid in money for some cloth.

8206. Is it a general thing in the country to pay in money, or to pay in goods?-When people have wool of their own, they make a difference.

8207. How would they make a difference?-Because if the wool had belonged to me I could have gone to any other merchant and sold it, but the wool was his.

8208. Was not the wool your own in this case?-If I had been able to pay for the wool when I took out, then it would have been my own.

8209. You mean that you got the wool on credit?-Yes.

8210. You had bought the wool, but you had not paid for it?-Yes.

8211. It was entered against you at 1s. a pound?-Yes.

8212. Then the wool was your own, although you might be owing Mr. Adie money for the price?-It was not Mr. Adie that that wool belonged to: it was Mr. Anderson that I got it from.

8213. And he would not give you the money at all?-He would not.

8214. Why did you not take it to somebody else and sell it for, money? If you had done that, you could then have sent the 28s. to Mr. Anderson, which you were due to him for the wool: did you not think of doing that?-No; I did not think of doing it.

8215. Could you have done that?-I might; I don't know; I never asked.

8216. Do you think Mr. Anderson would have objected, or would he have allowed you to take the cloth away again after you had brought it?-I cannot say because I never asked about that.

8217. Did you ever ask money before with which to pay the wabster?-Yes.

8218. Did you get it?-I have got money before from Mr. Anderson himself,-money to pay the wabster.

8219. Did you get as much as you wanted for that purpose?-Yes; just for the wabster.

8220. But not for your own work?-No.

8221. You had to take what was due you for your own work in goods?-Yes.

8222. I suppose you always wanted these goods for your own use?-We are always needing goods.

8223. But were you quite content to take the goods in place of money?-Yes, sometimes.

8224. You would rather have had the money sometimes?-Yes.

8225. But was it not the rule in the trade, and was it not the bargain made with you, that you were to take goods, and not to seek money?-No; there was no bargain made about it.

8226. Is it not the understanding in the trade that the cloth is to be paid for in goods and not in money?-I don't know.

8227. Have you made any cloth since that?-Yes. I made a piece for Mr Adie, but I got the money for it.

8228. Did you get money for the whole value?-Yes.

8229. Or was it just what you required for the wabster?-No; I got money for all that I had to get.

8230. Did you get the wool on that occasion from Mr. Adie?- Yes.

8231. He just charged you for the wool and gave you the whole balance for your work in money?-Yes.

8232. What quantity was there of that?-I don't recollect; we are always getting something out of the shop.

8233. Then you did not get the whole price of your work at that time in money?-No; I had got something out of the shop before that I was needing.

8234. You were due an account at the shop?-Yes.

[Page 201]

8235. Was that account as much as the value of the cloth?-No.

8236. You had something over to get?-Yes.

8237. Did you get what was over in money?-Yes, I got 1.

8238. Was that lately?-It was before Christmas.

8239. Do you keep an account with Mr. Adie at Voe?-No, I keep no account.

8240. But you had an account at the time when you settled for that cloth?-Yes.

8241. How long had that account been running?-For about two years.

8242. Did you go and get the wool and make the cloth in order to settle up that account?-Yes.

8243. Was your husband fishing at the time when you were due that account?-No; it was my own account.

8244. Is it a usual thing for a woman, when she is making cloth in that way, to have an account of her own with the merchant?-Yes.

8245. She gets the goods she wants and then settles for them when she brings the cloth?-Yes.

8246. How often do you settle when you have an account running in that way?-It is not often that I make the cloth, for I have very little time in which to make it.

8247. Do you ever knit?-I knit very little except what is required for my own family.

8248. Do any of your daughters help you in making the cloth or in knitting?-Yes.

8249. You all work at it?-Yes.

8250. Have you separate accounts, or do you all keep the same account with the merchant for your cloth?-We all keep the same account. We have no separate accounts.

8251. Do you think you would be better off if you got the whole payment of your cloth in money?-We might be better, but we are always needing something from the merchant.

8252. You don't think you could buy your goods any cheaper if you had money?-I don't know.

Brae, January 13, 1872, MRS GRACE WILLIAMSON, examined.

8253. Do you live in Muckle Roe?-Yes.

8254. Do you knit and also make cloth?-Yes.

8255. Have you heard what Mrs. Johnston said just now?-Yes.

8256. Have you the same way of dealing about your cloth which she has described?-No. I do not make any cloth except with what little wool I have of my own, and I sell it. I am paid for it just at the price which is going.

8257. Are you paid for it in money or in goods?-I get the price either in goods or in money, either way I choose to ask it.

8258. Do you generally get the same price for your cloth if you take it in money?-Yes. I sold a piece this winter to Mr. Adie, and I got the same in money for it as I would have got in goods.

8259. How much did you sell?-I sold about 30 yards.

8260. What was the price of it?-3s. 1d.

8261. Was the price higher then than it was in April?-Yes.

8262. Was your cloth better than Mrs. Johnston's?-I do not know.

8263. Was that paid to you altogether in money?-No; I took some goods.

8264. Had you an account at the shop at that time?-No. I never had any kind of credit in the shop before. I did not mark anything.

8265. Had you got anything before from the shop at all?-No.

8266. You just took some goods at the time when you took in the cloth?-Yes.

8267. What was the price of the goods you bought?-I can scarcely recollect.

8268. Was it 2 or 3?-No; I think it was something more than 1, but I cannot recollect.

8269. And you got the rest in money?-Yes.

8270. That would be 3 or 4 you would get in money?-I don't recollect what it was. My husband was along with me, and I did not keep an account for myself.

8271. Was it your husband that took in the cloth?-He and I were together.

8272. Have you always continued dealing in the same manner, getting what you wanted in goods, and as much as you required in money?-Yes, of course. Mr. Inkster is the only merchant we have any credit with.

8273. Have you an account with Mr. Inkster?-Yes.

8274. Does your husband fish for him?-Yes.

8275. And do you sell cloth to him too?-Yes; I sold some last year to him.

8276. Have you a book with him?-No; we don't keep any account ourselves. The things are entered in the book which he keeps himself.

8277. Have you an account with him in your own name as well as your husband?-I don't have any account in my name. One account serves for us both.

8278. Is it customary in these parts for one account to do for both husband and wife?-I don't know about any one except myself.

8279. Do you knit any?-A little but the cloth is the most that I do.

8280. Do you get money for your cloth at Mr. Inkster's place if you want it?-Yes, we get money if we ask for it.

8281. Have you generally a balance to get at the end of the year when you settle?-Yes.

8282. That balance is for your husband's fish and for your cloth?-Yes.

8283. That is to say, what you have to get for your fish and your cloth is a good deal more than you have to pay for things you have got out of the shop?-Of course it is.

8284. And you have to pay your rent out of that balance?-Yes.

8285. Have you always been in the habit of getting money for your wabster?-Yes; when we require money and ask for it we get it.

8286. Would you have got as much money two or three years ago as you got the last time you went with cloth?-No; cloth was not so high last year as it was then.

8287. But suppose you had, two or three years ago, taken a web that was worth 4, would you have got 2 or 3 in money on the price of it?-Yes, if I had asked for it I would have got it.

8288. Would you have got that five years ago if you had been selling it at that time?-I don't know about five years ago. I don't recollect.

8289. Did you ever get as much money before as you got on that last occasion?-Yes; but we took goods when we required them. There were some years ago when we were getting a bigger price. Mr. Anderson gave 3s. 8d. out-takes ( in goods), and 3s. 5d. in money; but I don't recollect how long ago that was.

8290. Then there were two prices for your cloth?-Yes.

8291. Did you ever sell 4 worth of cloth four or five years ago?- I don't think it.

8292. Did you ever sell 2 worth?-I think so.

8293. Did you ever get one-half or three-fourths of that in money?-I cannot recollect; it was always my husband who went with it, and he would recollect better.

8294. Did you ever get above 5s. in money for your wabster before this time?-Yes; we have got more than that, if we asked for it.

8295. How much more?-I cannot say exactly. We just got what we asked, unless the price was all the lower.

8296. Did you ever get 10s. in cash before?-Yes.

8297. Did you ever get 15s. in cash?-Yes.

[Page 202]

8298. Or 1?-Yes: I have got that too, if I had to get, and if I was not taking out goods.

8299. If you got 1, how much would be the price of the web which you took in?-I could not say unless I recollected exactly what number of yards there were.

8300. But you said you never sold as much as 4 worth before?-I don't mind about that. I may have done it, but I don't recollect.

8301. Do you ever mind of selling 3 worth?-Yes.

8302. Did you ever get 1 in cash out of that?-Yes; I would have got 1 out of that.

8303. But did you get it?-Well, we have got it, but I cannot mind the time exactly.

8304. Do you think it has been easier to get cash for your webs during the last year than it was before?-It may have been; but we were always needing goods, and it is just as well for us to take goods when we are needing them, as to get money and go anywhere else farther off. Of course, if we did not get goods here at a reasonable price, we might get them farther off.

8305. I suppose you know that you want the goods yourself?- Yes.

8306. And you know that the merchant would rather sell you the goods than give you money?-I cannot say that I ever saw any case with any merchant I ever dealt with where he would not give us the money if we had asked for it. I never was much in debt to any merchant.

8307. But it was mostly your husband that took the goods in?- Yes. I never was much in with any merchant, and therefore I could go to any place where thought I could get most for my work.

Brae, January 13, 1872, MARGARET WILLIAMSON, examined.

8308. Do you live in Muckle Roe?-Yes.

8309. Do you knit or make cloth?-I knit mostly, but I make some cloth too. I knit men's shirts and women's sleeves.

8310. Do you knit with your own wool?-I have to buy some but I have some of my own too.

8311. The wool was not given out to you to knit?-No.

8312. Where do you sell what you knit?-For the last three years I have sold it in Lerwick.

8313. Do you always go to Lerwick with it?-Yes, with all that I knit.

8314. Do you always get goods for your knitting?-Yes; I get goods, because I can get nothing else.

8315. Do you want to get money?-I hardly ever ask for money. I asked for a penny the last time out of 35s., and they refused to give it to me. I bought all that I could buy out of the work I had taken in and when it came to the last penny I asked for it, but they would not give it. That was at Mr. Linklater's.

8316. What did he say he would give it in: sweeties?-No; they would not keep any sweeties for fear of having to give them.

8317. What did they give you?-They gave me the penny at length, but they said we must take goods.

8318. Did you need all these goods for your own use?-I needed them all at that time, but I don't need them all now. If I knit any, I need hardly any goods now.

8319. If you were knitting now, you would rather have the money?-Yes; because I am needing hardly anything else.

8320. Do you live with your parents?-Yes.

8321. I suppose you would like to help them a little in keeping the house if you could get money for your knitting?-Yes; because my father is an old man, and is very sickly, and he is not able to keep the house as he used to do.

8322. Is it the case that you cannot help him because you cannot get money for your knitting?-Yes; I cannot help him in that way.

8323. Have you ever given away any of the goods you have got to your neighbours for money or for provisions?-No; I kept them all to myself.

8324. Do you sell the cloth you make in the same way that Mrs. Johnston and Mrs. Williamson have stated?-Yes.

8325. You get some wool from the merchant?-Yes.

8326. And that is set down against your name in an account?- Yes; until the cloth is brought back to the shop.

8327. When the cloth is brought back, the price the wool is deducted?-Yes.

8328. Do you get the balance in money?-Yes always in money, if I like to take it in money.

8329. Do you sometimes take it in goods?-I generally take it in money, because I am not needing goods.

8330. Do you think you would get a bigger price if you took it in goods?-Sometimes it is all the same. This year it is all the same whether you take money or goods.

8331. But some years it is different?-Yes, a little.

8332. Does the merchant tell you generally that he would rather you were to take the price out in goods?-No. The most of the cloth which I have made has been for Mr. Adie, and he gives me the money just soon as the goods.

Brae, January 13, 1872, GIDEON WILLIAMSON, examined.

8333. Are you a fisherman in Muckle Roe?-I am.

8334. Have you a piece of land there?-Yes.

8335. Whom do you fish for generally?-For Inkster. I have fished for him for five years.

8336. Do you settle every year in the spring?-We settle at Hallowmas for the twelve months.

8337. Do you always deal in Mr. Inkster's shop-Yes; I deal oftenest there.

8338. What do you go for elsewhere?-It is very trifling. My dealings are mostly with him.

8339. Is that because you fish for him?-Yes.

8340. Have you an account?-Yes.

8341. Are you obliged to deal on credit?-Yes, sometimes I am, because I must have supplies.

8342. Is that the reason why you go to his shop?-No. I would just as soon deal with him, if I had money, as I would go elsewhere.

8343. Is there any other place hereabout where you could deal?- Yes; but I would just as soon deal with Mr. Inkster as with any other man.

8344. Are you generally behind at the settlement?-Sometimes I am a little.

8345. But sometimes you have a balance to get in cash?- Sometimes; but sometimes the seasons are so bad that I have to go to him for a little supplies.

8346. I suppose that is the reason why you continue to fish for him? If you owe him a little money, you don't like to go and fish for another man?-I don't see what I could get by fishing for another; I pay him the same for his goods, and he pays me the same for my fish as another would do.

8347. Are his goods of as good a quality as in other shops?-Yes.

8348. Have you known any fishermen who have left one employer and gone to fish for another?-No; not that I could point out.

8349. A man generally continues to fish for the same merchant?- Yes; unless it may be a man who changes and goes south.

8350. But if he remains in the same place, does he generally go on fishing for the same merchant for years?-Yes; but I have heard of some of them shifting.

8351. What do they shift for generally?-They may shift to get chances in boats belonging to other curers.

8352. They think they may be better off perhaps by getting into another crew?-Yes.

[Page 203]

8353. Do men sometimes want to shift to another crew or another master, and are prevented from doing so because they are in debt?-I have never tried that.

8354. Do you know whether that is ever the case?-I could not answer that question, because I would not like to say anything I was not sure about.

8355. I suppose you would not think of leaving Mr. Inkster so long as you were in his debt?-Even if I was clear with him, I see no good I could do to myself by leaving him. If I ask him for money, I get it, just the same as out-takes; and I get out-takes from him, just the same as if I was paying down ready money for them.

8356. Do you think you would be any better off if you had not to run such a long account?-I don't know. A poor man generally can have very little until it comes perhaps to the twelvemonth's end; and if it were not that we have sometimes a beast to sell, or something like that, we would have very little to live on throughout the year, because the fishing time is only for about three months in the summer.

8357. You think if you were settled with at shorter periods, you would not have enough to carry you through the year?-Yes.

8358. And you could not settle with the merchant at the end, because the account you have to pay is bigger than what you have to get?-Yes.

8359. Is that sometimes the case?-Yes; because for some years there has been a good deal of bread to get in consequence of lean crops, and that brings the poor fishermen very much down.

Brae, January 13, 1872, JOHN WOOD, examined.

8360. Are you a fisherman in Muckle Roe?-I am.

8361. Do you fish for Mr. Inkster?-Yes.

8362. Have you heard what Gideon Williamson said?-Yes.

8363. Is your way of dealing the same as he has described?-Yes; the very same.

8364. Have you anything different to say?-No.

8365. How long have you fished for Mr. Inkster?-Nine years.

8366. Have you ever wished to change?-No.

8367. Do you always get your supplies from him?-Yes.

8368. Are you generally somewhat behind at the end of the year?-Sometimes.

8369. Who did you fish for before?-Mr. Anderson.

8370. Why did you leave him?-Because it was more convenient for us where we lived to fish for Mr. Inkster.

8371. Were you clear with Mr. Anderson when you left him?- Very nearly. I think I was due him 1 or so.

8372. When did you pay that up?-Mr. Inkster paid it up for me. He sent it to Mr. Anderson at the end of the season.

8373. Is that a usual thing to do when a man has shifted?-Yes,

8374. His new employer pays up the whole of his debt?-Yes.

8375. Have you heard of that being done often?-Yes; I have heard of it being done.

Brae, January 13, 1872, GILBERT SCOLLAY, examined.

8376. You are a tenant on the Busta estate?-Yes.

8377. Do you fish any?-No.

8378. I understand you have come here to say something about your line of life and its bearing upon this inquiry: what is it?-My principal means of living is that I get an annuity for keeping some pauper lunatics belonging to several parishes, Delting and Tingwall, and so forth.

8379. What have you got to say about that?-At the time when I commenced to do that, I unfortunately was not clear with the man who now supplies me.

8380. Who is that?-Mr. Thomas Adie.

8381. Had you been a fisherman before?-No; I had been a sawyer for many years.

8382. Had you kept an account at Voe?-Yes.

8383. Were you behind with it?-Yes, a little.

8384. How much?-I could not exactly say, but it was a good deal.

8385. Was it 20?-Perhaps more at times, and sometimes less; but we will say it was that.

8386. What have you to say about it?-I want to speak about the way of supply, and the prices of provisions and other things; I never had my money at command.

8387. How long ago is it since you had that debt?-It is perhaps ten years ago since I commenced with one pauper, and then I got another one. I gave Mr. Adie leave to draw my money with which to settle my accounts, and I got supplies from him.

8388. Where do you draw your money from?-From the parishes that I had got the lunatics from.

8389. Was it because you were due Mr. Adie money when you left that you gave him leave to draw your money?-It was not that altogether. It was quite right, when I was due him an account, that he should be paid for it, but he drew my money from the parishes and supplied me with meal. Perhaps I required ten or twelve sacks a year. I do not get it all from him now. If I had had the use of my money, I might have tried to settle the old account with Mr. Adie and have got my meal where I liked, but I could not do that. With the money I could have got my articles at cost price. I asked my money from Mr. Adie, but he refused to give it me some years ago.

8390. He refused to give it you because you had made an arrangement with him that he was to draw the money?-Yes; not to lay it out, but only to draw it for me.

8391. Was it not the arrangement that he was to draw it for you in order that he might pay his own debt?-We never had any arrangement of that kind, but that was perhaps considered to be the arrangement both by him and me. I would have done that willingly.

8392. Have you squared up your accounts with Mr. Adie at any time?-It is a good while since I was able to do that without injuring me otherwise; but Adie having the use of my money, I got my things from him.

8393. What was the account for which was due to Mr. Adie?-For meal principally, and clothing.

8394. Have you got an account?-Yes; it is in Mr. Adie's book at Voe.

8395. Have you gone over every year at settling time and squared up your account, and seen how much you were due to him, or how much he was due to you, at the end of the year?-Sometimes I did and sometimes not. I knew that I was not able to meet that account, because I did not have the use of my money. If I wanted a dozen sacks of meal, I was always told that there was 2s. a sack as commission for the risk of getting it, and ultimately I wrote to the meal dealers in the south, and I found that there was a difference of 10s. on the sack of meal; that, upon 12 sacks, would have been a saving of 6 alone.

8396. Did you give Mr. Adie an order to the inspector to pay the money to him which was due to you?-Yes, I told Mr. Adie to draw it for me, and I signed an order that he was to draw it.

8397. And he has drawn it ever since?-Yes.

8398. Was that for the money which you were to get from Delting parish?-Yes.

8399. Is Mr. Adie a member of the Parochial Board of that parish?-Yes.

8400. Is he the chairman?-I don't know.

8401. Who is the inspector of that parish?-Mr. Louttit.

8402. What do you think can be done for you?-I made my complaint to Mr. Adie lately about the state of these things; but it is not my wish to mention the names of any parties. It is only the practice that I object to.

[Page 204]

8403. What practice do you refer to?-This truck system, and the enormous prices that are charged.

8404. What have you to say about the prices? You have told me that you can save 6 on 12 sacks of meal by dealing south?-Yes, by dealing with Tod Brothers. I wrote to them about it, and they answered me.

8405. Have you got their answer?-No, I have not got it, but I remember it quite well.

8406. How long ago was that?-Just two or three years since.

8407. What was the price of Mr. Adie's meal at that time?-It was 34s. per sack for Indian corn meal.

8408. What was the price of Messrs. Tod Brothers'?-22s.

8409. That was it difference of 12s. per sack?-Yes, but it left me to pay the freight, which would be about 2s. 6d.

8410. Could you have got the meal brought up here for 2s. 6d.?- Yes, or whatever the 'Queen of the Isles' charged.

8411. How many sacks of Indian corn meal would you require in it year?-Perhaps about a dozen sacks.

8412. Do you feed the lunatics on that meal?-No, not the lunatics, but my own family, and sometimes the lunatics too.

8413. Have you made any comparison between the prices charged at Mr. Adie's shop and elsewhere?-Yes. I could buy it at Mr. Robertson's store, at Vidlin, for 27s.; that, upon 12 sacks, would make it difference 4s. between the two places.

8414. Could you not have got your meal from Mr. Robertson's store?-I got some of it, because I kept a party from Lunnasting, and I got part of my supplies there.

8415. Did you get your supplies for that lunatic from Lunnasting?-Occasionally, when I asked them.

8416. Had you an account there?-Yes; I could either get money or anything that I wanted which was due. I could not have done that with Mr. Adie; and therefore I have never been able to get clear of my debt to him.

8417. Did you bring your supplies all the way from Mr. Robertson's store to where you lived?-Yes.

8418. Was that because you kept a lunatic pauper from that parish?-Yes. I took advantage of that, because I could get my goods cheaper there but I could have got money as well, and have gone to any other place with it. If I had had money to get from Mr. Adie, I would have got it from him too with good will, but I never had it to get, and it is that which has kept me deeper and deeper in spite of all I could do.

8419. Could you not have gone to the Parochial Board of Delting, and got your money whenever you pleased, instead of letting Mr. Adie draw it?-I might have got it, but Mr. Adie at one settlement made up a line, and I was compelled to sign it, that he was to draw all the money which I had to get for the lunatic from that parish. I signed it because he wrote me a letter saying I was to come down and pay my account, and then to transfer my custom, which I was not able to do without leaving me destitute.

8420. Have you got that letter?-No.

8421. What did you do with it?-I just destroyed it carelessly.

8422. How long ago was that?-I could not exactly say. If I state it incorrectly, it is not done willingly, but it may have been three years since. At the same time I asked Mr. Adie to give me the use of my money, and to keep some of it in order to pay the old account, but he did not do it, and that is the main cause why I am so far behind. I could have had my account with him paid by the profits I could have saved from dealing in the south; I am perfectly sure of that.

8423. But if you wanted your money, why could you not have gone to the Parochial Board and told them to pay you, and not to regard Mr. Adie's orders about it?-What would have become of what I was due to Mr. Adie if I had got the money from the Parochial Board? It was my duty, and I had to pay it to him. At that very time Mr. Adie told his shopman not to supply me unless I came to his shop with cash.

8424. But you wanted to stop going to him because you thought you could get your supplies cheaper elsewhere?-If I had got my supplies in the south, I could have paid him something yearly and lived better. I was making my complaint to Mr. Adie lately, and he promised (and no man was ever deceived in anything that Mr. Adie ever promised, neither was I) that for the future I should get my things at cash price. So far as I am concerned, I have no cause of complaint now; but that has been the cause why I am in debt.

8425. How long ago was that arrangement made about getting your things at cash price?-It may be two or three months ago, and I have got a part of the debt realized since. I have no reason to doubt Mr. Adie's word, or that of any of his sons.

8426. You have one lunatic from Delting, and you have another from Lunnasting?-Yes. I have not got a lunatic from Lunnasting, but a pauper that I keep at a separate house.

8427. But in consequence of having that pauper you get some supplies at Vidlin?-Yes.

8428. Who pays you for the keep of that pauper?-The inspector, Mr. John Anderson, of Lunnasting.

8429. Was there any arrangement made when you got that pauper, that you were to take supplies at Vidlin?-None whatever; it is by my own will that I go there. I can get money, or anything I like; but when I find it convenient, and that the goods are cheaper there than elsewhere, I go and take them.

8430. Are Vidlin and Voe the only places where you get supplies?-Yes; I have dealt with Mr. Adie for thirty years; and I have no cause of complaint against him, except the enormous price which he generally charges for his goods.

8431. Is there any other article which you could name besides meal which is charged at an enormous price?-This place is farther north, and the goods here should be charged a shade dearer, because there is more expense in bringing them.

8432. But can you mention any one article, such as cotton or cloth, which is dearer here than at Lerwick?-You can make a better bargain in Lerwick than in the north.

8433. Have you done that frequently?-Yes.

8434. You only keep three paupers?-Yes.

Brae, January 13, 1872, JAMES ROBERTSON, examined.

8435. Are you a fisherman in Muckle Roe?-I was a fisherman at one time, but I am not fishing now; I am too old to go to sea.

8436. Has it always been the practice of the fishermen there to deal with the merchants they sell their fish to?-Yes; for forty years back. I have been about thirty years in the fishing.

8437. Have you been at the Faroe fishing?-No; I always went to the ling fishing.

8438. Did you always keep an account with the merchant who employed you?-Yes.

8439. Did you always fish for the same merchant?-Yes, for John Anderson & Co. and for Mr. Leisk, who was there before them.

8440. You always had an account at Hillswick?-Yes.

8441. Did you always go to Hillswick for your supplies?-No; only twice a year. I went for my fishing gear before the season began, and then at the end of the season I went again to settle.

8442. Did you get supplies then?-Yes, if I needed them.

8443. Did you always get the balance in cash when it was due?- Very often it was not due, and I could not expect a thing which was not due.

8444. Why was it not due?-Because of the bad [Page 205] fishings, and of the meal being very dear then; much more so than it is now.

8445. Did you always get more supplies than the value of your fish?-No, I did not do that always.

8446. But generally?-No, not at any time; I always tried to deal so as not to be in debt.

8447. But you said there was seldom anything to get at settling?- There was very seldom any cash that I had to take, because they were lean fishings.

8448. And because you had got supplies up to the value of your fish?-No; but I did not ask for any supplies beyond what I required for the fishing, and perhaps a little meal for my family, which they could not do without.

8449. But the price of that was generally as much you had to get at settlement?-It was.

8450. Was it ever more?-Not very often.

8451. Did you ever think of changing from one employer to another?-No, I did not think of that, because I did not see any good it could do me.

8452. Do you think you would not have got a better price?-No.

8453. And you would not have got better supplies from another merchant?-The only merchant I ever dealt with was Mr. Inkster, because his shop is nearest to me, and I always found his goods as cheap as any other man's.

8454. Would it not have been far more convenient for you to have got all your goods from Mr. Inkster's, instead of carrying them from Hillswick?-Yes; but with regard to lines and hooks, and such things as we require for the fishing, we could not get them from Mr. Inkster, because we were bound to go for them to the man that we fished for.

8455. How long is it since you gave up fishing?-About eight years ago.

8456. You continued to go to the merchant for whom you fished until that time?-Yes.

8457. Did you never think of fishing for Mr. Inkster?-No, because the men I fished with in the boat wanted to go to Mr. Anderson, and I did not want to make discord in the boat's crew.

8458. Have you heard the evidence of the other witnesses from Muckle Roe, Gideon Williamson and John Wood?-Yes.

8459. Is there anything additional that you want to say?-No.

8460. Do you think the fishermen are generally quite free to engage to fish to any employer they like?-They are quite right to engage to any man that would give the best bargain and the best agreement, and that is the thing they should do.

8461. But they would just get as good a bargain from one merchant as from another?-Yes, equally the same because it appears that one fish merchant won't pay more for his fish than another does.

8462. So that the fishermen would have no advantage in changing?-No.

8463. They cannot better themselves by shifting?-They cannot.

8464. Has that been your experience since you have been a fisherman?-It has been my experience all my life, and many besides me have found the same thing.

8465. They would like to better to themselves, but they could not?-That is the very thing.

8466. Do you think they would be better by curing their own fish?-They have no chance of curing their own fish, because those who do so have to find booths for them until the crafts come to take away the cured fish. Besides, poor men like fishermen cannot do that.

8467. They have to buy salt for the curing, and that costs a lot of money?-Yes.

8468. So that they are obliged to give their fish green to the merchant?-Yes.

8469. Have you ever known men to make any attempt to cure fish for themselves?-I have.

8470. Have they not been any better off in that way?-If the fish-curers had been agreeable to them doing that, they would have made a little off it. They would have saved, perhaps, a few pounds on the ton, but they could not find booths in which to put their fish at the season when they require to be housed. They had to pay cellar rent to the parties to whom the booths belonged.

8471. Could they sell their fish at as good a price as the curers could?-No. They could not seek out for purchasers in the south country as the curers can do, and they were obliged to sell their fish to the Shetland merchants and at the price which was current here.

8472. Don't you think the men would be better off if they could get payment for their fish earlier in the season, and could go and deal at any store they liked for their goods?-I don't know that that would be any advantage to them, because they know by experience that their earnings are very small, and they could not afford to take them in that way. They must try to save their earnings for their rents, and for the maintenance of their families.

8473. But if they got their money in their hand, instead of running an account, would they not make a better use of it?-I don't know. Some of them might be inclined to do so and some not.

8474. Might they not buy their goods cheaper if they had the money to pay for them?-Some of them might, but some of them might spend their money very carelessly.

8475. Did you hear what Gilbert Scollay said about getting meal cheaper in the south than it can be got here?-We all know that that is the case.

8476. Have any of you tried to get it in that way?-No.

8477. Why?-From want of knowledge. We don't know where to go in order to find the cheapest market for meal.

8478. But Gilbert Scollay found out where to go and he would have told you?-Gilbert Scollay might have done that, but we never like to deal in the kind of meal which he bought.

8479. You could have got any sort of meal if you had asked it?- Yes, he would have got any sort.

8480. And so would you if you had gone to the right quarter. Don't you think if a lot of you now were to agree to buy meal from a man in the south, and were getting the price of your fish in cash, so that you could pay for the meal in cash, you would be able to make a better thing of it?-There is no mistake about that.

8481. What is to hinder a boat's crew or two from agreeing to bring their own meal from the south?-The fish-curer must supply them with money before they could do that.

8482. Will not the curer advance money to the men if they want it?-It would just be at his own option.

8483. Do you think the fish-curer would not give you the money before the end of the season?-I don't know, I never asked it, and what a man has not asked he cannot speak to at all.

8484. Do you think he would be likely to do it?-The merchants might do it to some, and to some they would not. They could not be expected to do it to a man who was indebted to them; but if a man was clear with them, they might have no objections to advance the money.

8485. I suppose it would not be easy to find a boat's crew where some of the men were not in debt?-I think there are a good few boats' crews of that kind.

8486. Could not a boat's crew, where none of the men were in debt, get their money in that way?-Certainly they could if they wished it.

8487. And they could import their meal from the south if they found it any cheaper?-Perhaps they could.

8488. Do any of your people knit or weave?-They do.

8489. Are they paid for their work in the way which Mrs. Williamson and Mrs. Johnston have described?-Yes.

8490. They are paid mostly in goods?-They can take either goods or money, because they are not in debt to any man.

8491. Do you keep an account with any merchant?-No; I keep the family accounts.

[Page 206]

8492. Do you keep them all in one?-Yes.

8493. Is that a common way at Muckle Roe?-I think it is, and I think it is the best way.

8494. Have you sometimes taken their webs to sell to the merchants?-Yes, I have sometimes done so.

8495. Have you ever got money for a web?-Yes, if I wanted it.

8496. But did you ever get it?-I have. I have got 4 at a time, when the web was worth it.

8497. Was that long ago?-It was this very year.

8498. Did you get it all in money?-Yes.

8499. Was that at Voe?-No, it was at Brae from Mr. Inkster.

8500. Did you ever get as much money before for any web?-No, I don't think so.

8501. Were you paid mostly in goods before?-No, not altogether in goods. If I did not require the goods, I could have it in money, because if I was not in debt to them they were obliged to pay me the money.

8502. Were they always obliged to pay money for webs?-Yes, to men who were clear with them, and who would not take their wool from them.

8503. But a man who was not clear would not get all money?- No, he could not expect it.

8504. The price of his cloth would be put to his account?-Yes.

8505. And he might get a little money if he wanted it?-Yes. I never knew a merchant to refuse a man a little money if he was in need of it.

8506. But the man had to tell the merchant that he was in need of it?-Yes, if he was in need, he had to explain that to him.

8507. If a man was in debt to a merchant, and wanted to get money for his web, could he not take it to another merchant?-Yes; but it would not be very fair to do so. A man who is in debt to another ought always to pay his debt when he can.

8508. But he might pay it at another time and he might be wanting the money for his own immediate needs?-Such cases as that might occur, but not very often.

8509. You think the people round about you don't often do that?- I don't think they do.

Brae, January 13, 1872, PETER BLANCH, examined.

8510. Are you a fisherman and farmer near Brae?-Yes, about a mile or a mile and a half north from this.

8511. Have you a good bit of land?-Yes, just about as big as most of the people have hereabouts-a small allotment.

8512. Have you got a brother in Ollaberry?-I have a brother-in- law there, and a cousin, William Blanch.

8513. Have you been present to-day?-Not all the time. I have been here for about an hour.

8514. Have you heard the description which has been given of how the fishermen are settled with for their accounts?-Yes. I was present at the first meeting which was held at Brae.

8515. Do you settle in the same way as you have heard described?-Yes, much in the same way; but I am a Faroe fisherman, and I have been so for the last twelve years.

8516. Are you a skipper?-Yes.

8517. Who do you ship with?-I have been employed by Mr. Adie's firm for the last five years. Before that I went out from Lerwick. I went for Mr. Sutherland, and then for Mr. George Reid Tait.

8518. You settle every year in the winter?-Yes, or sometimes twice in one year, but not often.

8519. You get supplies, as a rule, from the merchant in whose smack you go to the fishing?-Yes, we get that if we require them.

8520. But, as a rule, do you get your supplies from that merchant?-As a rule we do, but there are exceptions. For my own part, I have never been under the necessity of taking out supplies unless I chose; but, generally speaking, I have taken them out, especially stores required for our own use in the vessel.

8521. And when anything is required for the man's family at home during the season, is it generally got from the same merchant?-It may be. In most cases,, I think, that would be the case; but, for my own part, was not bound to do that, because at the time of settlement I had always something to take, and I could deal where I chose.

8522. You say you were not bound to do it: is it common for men to feel that they are bound to do that?-Of course. If I was employed by a curer or a merchant, and had been in the habit of dealing with another before I was employed by him, I would consider it something like a duty, in a moral point of view, to put my money into his shop, and I have done so, although I have never been obligated to do it.

8523. Are some of the men obligated to do that?-I think they are obligated, for this reason, that they could scarcely help themselves. Perhaps they had not the money to purchase their goods elsewhere, and they were bound for that reason from a selfish motive.

8524. You think they could not get credit elsewhere?-Yes. Some of them I know could not get it elsewhere. Perhaps some of them could.

8525. But the merchant who employs men at the Faroe fishing is generally ready to give credit to a man who is in these circumstances, and who does not have money?-Of course he does. He understands he has that to do. They make advances, perhaps before, but as soon as the men engage to go to the fishing. It may be about this time, or it may be a month previous to this, when they make the engagement to go.

8526. And they made an advance then either in cash or in out-takes?-I don't think they will likely give much cash. They may give 8s. or 10s. in cash, but unless they know the man is to be depended upon I don't think they will give much more. They may give man until he has made some earning by his fishing; but unless it is a case where they know it can be paid back again by the man otherwise, they will not give it. He may pay it out of his stock for instance, he may have some other means. For my own part, of course, I was always so far able to pay my account, and I never had need to ask for money. I can only speak to that from personal experience; but I have known men who sailed with me for eight or nine years, and I know they have got a little money, perhaps 10s. or 1, at a time when they required it.

8527. Although they were bound?-I did not know about their being bound. I would not say much about that. I daresay some of them would be bound, and some of them were not.

8528. Have you ever known men being bound when, they engaged to a merchant?-No. I may have heard about it, but I could not show it by proof.

8529. Have you heard of men who are obligated, as you said, to engage with it particular merchant for the fishing because they were in his debt?-No; I could not say definitely as to that.

8530. Have you had an idea or it notion that a man might have engaged for that reason?-Yes; I have had that idea, and I have been told so by men themselves, but these men are not here, and I could not say that it was actually the case. For my own part, I have never been in these circumstances.

8531. Have you ever considered whether you would be better under any other arrangement than making settlement at the end of the year for the Faroe fishing?-I have considered that matter, and I have often thought that we might have been better than we are under the present state of matters. That may have been partly our own blame, in consequence of the want of information among the fishermen; but I have often thought, and I think so still, that we don't have that fair play which we ought to have. I think the present system is almost, if not altogether, a one-sided arrangement for the merchant. That is my opinion with regard to the Faroe fishing, and the ling fishers say the [Page 207] same. We don't know what we are to get until the end of the season. We go and toil away and catch fish if we can, but we don't know what we are to get for them until the time of settlement. There is an arrangement made between the fish-curers or merchants, and by that time they have made up their minds, and have fixed upon certain price, while we under our agreement have just to take what they please to give us. Our understanding is that the crew get one-half of the nett, and the fish-merchant or curer gets the other half for his vessel. Of course, the salt and the expenses of curing deducted, and the master's and mate's extra, and the score money.

8532. There are some deductions before you come to the nett?- Yes; we don't get one half of the gross; we only get one-half of the nett. There is allowance for salt and curing, which is generally 2, 10s., and I think it could be done cheaper, but that may be our own blame. Then there is the master's extra and the mate's extra, which is a fee of so much per ton to each, according as the agreement is made.

8533. What other deduction is there?-There is score-money, and there may be the expense of bringing the fish to market.

8534. Is that a deduction, or does it not come off the merchant's half of the nett?-I don't know exactly how that is done. We never see the account sales of the fish, although we ought to see them, but that may be our own blame too.

8535. You don't know whether the merchant gets commission of 5 per cent?-I have been told so by one merchant that I was employed by, Mr. Grierson. I never was told that by any other merchant for whom I was employed, but Mr. Grierson told me that was actually so in his case.

8536. You are a skipper, and you actually don't know how the deductions are made which come off before the nett produce is halved?-Of course I have asked about these things, and I have been told that there were no other deductions taken off beyond what have mentioned.

8537. Do you have nothing to do with the making of these deductions yourself?-No.

8538. You have nothing to do with the weighing of the fish, nor with the selling of them?-No; nor with making a market for them.

8539. But you think you might be more fairly dealt with than you are?-I think we might. I don't know whether that is altogether the merchant's blame, but think we could have a fairer understanding, for two reasons: In the first place, we ought to have an understanding when we start or engage that we are to have a certain fixed price for our fish, the same as the Englishmen have. They know what they are to get before their fish are caught.

8540. Where do these Englishmen fish?-They are in smacks that come from London and Grimsby and Hull and Berwick, and they fish for curers in Shetland, and land their fish here.

8541. Have these men all an agreement for a fixed price?-So far as I understand, they have. At least I have been told so by themselves.

8542. These men have a fixed agreement with the curers here to whom they sell?-Yes. Of course, their men are not paid in the same way as we are. The men on board these vessels, except the masters, are paid by weekly wages.

8543. And the master makes a bargain with the merchant here about the fish?-I rather think it is the owner who makes the bargain.

8544. Do you know the nature of the bargain they make?-I cannot say that I know definitely. I know the merchant here agrees to pay them a fixed price when the fish are landed in a dry state. They are salted on board the vessels, and they get 10, 11, or 12 a ton for salted fish when landed. They know they are to get that before the fish are caught, and they cannot expect anything more. Now; I say we ought to have something like that, and then we would know what we were actually working for. It might be that in that way we would get less than we do present, but we would have a fair understanding. If we lost in one year, we might gain in another.

8545. Do you think the men in Shetland, generally speaking, would be inclined to consent to a bargain of that sort? Would they not grumble very much if the price rose considerably before the end of the season?-It would only be parties who were dull of apprehension that would be likely to grumble. It would not be the intelligent men. For my part, and so far as my experience goes, I don't think a man of intelligence and experience would have a right to grumble in that case and I don't think he would do so. There are a great many I have spoken to, and reasoned the matter with, who, I don't think, would grumble.

8546. Do you think the fishermen, under such a system, would have the same advantage at the beginning of the season in making a bargain as the masters would have? Would the masters not be likely to know better what the market price was likely to be towards the end of the season, and thus be able to make a calculation as to the price more in their own favour?-The merchants ought, from their position, to have more information as to the probable state of the market, and, a rule, they do have more information; but I believe there are not a few masters of Faroe fishing vessels who could make as good a market, or nearly as good a market, as the curers could.

8547. You think they have all the information necessary to guide them in making a good bargain in the beginning of the season, or just as much as the curers have?-Yes. A curer would just be as likely to make a mistake in his arrangements as I would be. The market is so fluctuating that it is possible a curer may go and make a loss. He might possibly make an arrangement with another merchant to sell his fish at a certain fixed price, and there is a possibility of the fish rising after that, and of course I would stand the same chance.

8548. Do you say that in the English vessels the fish is salted before it is put on shore?-Yes.

8549. Is that the case in your smacks also?-Yes; we are always bound to do that. We could not keep the fish otherwise. When fishing on the coast of Faroe or Iceland, or elsewhere, we cannot help ourselves; we must salt them in order to save them.

8550. Is the salt put on board the vessel, and supplied by the fish-curer at starting?-Yes.

8551. You said you thought 50s. a ton was rather too high a charge for salting and curing: is that your opinion?-I am inclined to think so. I know the price of salt as well as the curers do. I have been in the habit of buying salt at Liverpool more than two or three times, and I know what I have paid for it, buying it with ready money. The last cargo of salt which I brought here cost 7s. per ton, when ready to leave Liverpool, and the freight here would be 10s. Then there would be 1s. per ton for landing, at least. Then there would be 2s. for wastage and they might take off 1s. or 2s. more for cellar rent. That would be 22s.

8552. Would that be the total cost of the salt delivered in Shetland?-It might vary; but that is what I paid for it the last time I bought a cargo.

8553. Do you think 22s. is a liberal calculation for it?-I think so. Then the people have to be paid for curing, that is, washing and drying the fish, and I think they generally pay at least 12s. per ton, or in some cases more, for that. I have never cured fish myself, but I have been told by curers that that is about the expense.

8554. That would be 12s. for the workpeople employed at the curing; but you would also require some allowance for implements and sheds and booths?-No doubt an allowance would require to be made for that too. In some cases a man may be curing fish where he has to provide a booth for himself, and he has to get covering from the fish-curer or merchant. That, however, would only be a trifle.,

8555. Would 3s. a ton be too much for that?-As rule, I think it would not.

8556. Would it be too little?-I think it would not be too little; I think it would fully meet it.

[Page 208]

8557. Would there be any other expense for the curing of the fish?-Not so far as the curing is concerned.

8558. You say the charge for curing is 50s.?-Yes. I have paid my share of it at that rate, and I have sometimes paid for it at the rate of 52s. 6d., but it has been less than 50s. in my experience. At one time it was 45s., but of late years it has never been less than 50s.

8559. The calculation which you have made comes so that you think the fish-curer makes a profit of 13s. per ton upon the curing: is that your opinion?-My opinion is just exactly as I have stated it. It is possible I may be wrong in some of the items, because in some cases the merchant may have to give the curer more. It may be a late season, or a wet season, and in order to get the fish dried and ready for market it is possible they might encourage the curer, by giving him 1s. or 2s. more.

8560. The expense might be more than 37s. a ton in some cases?-It might be.

8561. But you think that 37s. a ton is a fair enough calculation, so far as you can make it, for the usual expenses of salting and curing?-I think so.

8562. Do you think fishermen could cure for themselves upon a small scale?-It might not be easy to get a crew together which could do that, but I think it could be done. I do not see why the master of a Faroe fishing vessel could not get a man to cure his fish as well as another man. There are often beaches that he could get the use of for the time being, and I think it is quite possible they could get their fish cured, but there may be some difficulty about it. It might be that every person would not be able to do it.

8563. You do not know whether that has been tried?-I do not. For my own part, I never attempted it.

8564. Do you think the system of running accounts among the Faroe fishermen you have met with has led them to incur too large amounts of debt?-I am inclined to think so.

8565. Is that one of your reasons for wishing to have a price fixed at the beginning of the year?-That would be one of the special reasons, but it is not the whole reason. I have another reason for that, which is, that as the system exists now, if the merchant makes a good bargain or a good market for his fish, and the man he sells them to does not fail before the price is payable, the merchant never loses, because he never pays the price to us before then which he can afford to pay. He is always secure; but if he had a fixed price to pay for the fish; he might lose as quick as I would. That is my main reason for objecting to this system. I would like to have the thing altered so that there might be something like fair play, and that if I lose, I lose, and that if I gain, I gain. I am not saying that the merchant is not paying me a fair price now. He may be paying me all he can afford to pay, but I don't know that.

8566. But by the system you propose, the price might be lower than is sufficient for your labour?-I would have to take my chance of that. In my experience I have had to contend with three all but total failures at the fishing, and of course our labour and time went for almost nothing. But that was not the owner's blame; we could not help it, and no more could he.

8567. Is there any other plan for the payment of fish that has occurred to you? How would it do, for instance, if a certain part of the price per cwt. were arranged to be paid on delivery of the green fish, and that the rest, whatever it might be, should be paid at settlement according to the current price?-I could scarcely speak with regard to green fish, because my experience has been in salted fish, and I would only like to speak about that with which I have been myself more immediately connected. But speaking with regard to salted fish only, what you have suggested would be a far better way, because I would then have a chance of seeing my fish weighed out. I don't think the merchant has cheated me out of a ton or half a ton of fish, but I have not had the chance of seeing my fish weighed when I was there. Each vessel's catch is kept and cured separately; but when we come to deliver the fish, if we had a chance of seeing it weighed then, and got a certain figure for it, that would be exactly the way in which these Englishmen deal. They see their fish weighed, and they know what they are getting for each ton or each cwt. of it, and they have nothing more to expect. But we don't do that; we get the dried fish price.

8568. Do you know how much green fish makes a cwt. of dry?-I know that about 21/4 cwt. is the general rate allowed in the ling fishing for green fish, but if it is good fish it will not require so much as that I have helped to cure myself, but it may be as much as that with bad fish. As to salted fish, I could not say definitely what is the proportion.

8569. There is no such calculation required in the Faroe fishing?- No; it does not come so immediately under my notice. I never saw my fish weighed dry; I have seen them occasionally weighed wet, but not often.

8570. Are they occasionally weighed wet in the Faroe fishing?- Sometimes, not often. It is done perhaps on shore or on board, as it happens. Suppose we land them at a different station from what we intended, they are counted out and weighed when sold, and then the owner or fish-curer will know what they can turn out when dry. That is the reason why they are weighed.

8571. Then there must be a calculation made in that case?-There is, but I do not know exactly what it is.

8572. To go back to your calculation about the expense of curing fish, can you tell me how much salt is required to cure a ton of fish?-We generally reckon upon a ton of salt to a ton of dry fish. If the salt is well cared for it will do a little more but we generally reckon upon that as an average.

8573. Is the salt which the fish get all put on them before they are put on shore?-Yes; it is all put on. There is none put on afterwards, except it may be in the case of a few fish which are likely to give way, or when we get fish and have not enough salt, but that is a case of emergency and an exception-not the rule. As a rule, we cure our fish and put all the salt on them they require.

8574. Have you any knowledge of the system of payment in the ling fishing?-Only from what I have heard about it. I have been at it only once when I was a lad; and I cannot say much about it from experience.

8575. Do you think your neighbours are generally quite at liberty to deal with any merchant they please in the ling fishing?-I believe they are at perfect liberty so far as any man is concerned who could stand in a position like me, and be able to pay his way at any time; but I think a man who could not pay his way, and who was always in debt, would not be at liberty to go where he chose. I am not sure that even he would not be at liberty to use his own judgment, and deal where he liked; but I don't know that he would be looked well upon if he went to another. That is to say, if he was in debt 10 or 20 to a merchant, I don't think the merchant would look well upon it if the man went to another merchant to whom he owed nothing, and fished for him. At least that is what they have told me, and what I have known; but, of course, a man who can pay his way, and who is not bound to fish for a certain individual, can do as he likes. There are fishermen in other parts of the country who are bound to fish for their landowner or their factor, but that does not exist here.