4440. What is the shopkeeper's name there?-Henry Isbister.

4441. Is that shop near Boddam?-Yes, it is just at Boddam.

4442. Is that store managed in much the same way Goudie has described with regard to the store at Grutness?-No, not exactly in the same way. Most of the things which are kept there are much the same as in other places.

4443. Do you mean that the quality of the goods is the same?- Yes, it is much the same as elsewhere.

4444. And you don't complain of the prices there?-No, not of the things that I deal in myself.

4445. What are these-meal and tea?-No; I deal very little in these things there, because it has pleased God that I could mend myself in another way.

4446. In what way?-By going to another store.

4447. Then you are not obliged to deal with that store at all?-No, I am not obliged to go to that store unless I like.

4448. Is that because you have ready money with which to buy at another store?-Exactly.

4449. You have always got some money in your hands?-Yes.

4450. Do you sometimes buy in Lerwick?-Yes.

4451. But you also buy at Mr. Bruce's store at Voe?-Yes; some trifling things, such as rope or iron hoop, or the like of that; and these are sold at much the same prices there as I can get them for at other places.

4452. Do you pay for them in ready money?-No.

4453. They are put into your account and settled for at the end of the year?-Yes.

4454. Where do you get your provisions?-I get them sometimes at Gavin Henderson's, and sometimes at Lerwick.

4455. What do you pay for meal by the boll at Henderson's?-I could not exactly say, because I don't have to run an account for that. Generally I pay for it at once.

4456. Then, at settling time with Mr Bruce, do you generally get a large balance in cash?-Whether it is large or small, I get it in cash at the beginning of the year, at the settling time.

4457. Do you sometimes get advances in the course of the year while the fishing is going on?-Sometimes I do, if I require them.

4458. Have you often asked for advances of that kind?-I have.

4459. Have they ever been refused?-Never. I always got them when I had money coming to me.

4460. Do you mean that you always got them when he was due you money?-Yes. Sometimes, even if he had been due me a little money, he might not perhaps have had money beside him to supply me with; but when he had it I always got it, whether I had it to get or not.

4461. What has been the amount of money due to you for fish during the last two or three years?-I have a few receipts here which will show that. [Produces accounts.]

4462. This account [showing] is for 1870; and it contains rent, 6; roads, 4s. 6d.; poor-rate, 9s.: is that the tenant's half?-Yes.

4463. Then there is a charge, 'To share of rent of hill:' is that the scattald which you hold along with your neighbours?-Yes; and which the neighbouring landlord is not taking a rent for at all. It all runs scattald together.

4464. Is the neighbouring landlord Mr. Bruce of Simbister?-Yes.

4465. On his land, does the rent of the scattald come [Page 111] into the rent of the farms?-There is no rent paid for the scattald at all on his land. It is used in the same way by all the tenants.

4466. When was the additional payment charged against you first for scattald?-Two years ago.

4467. Then there is cash for kirk seats, 3s.: why do you pay your kirk seats through your landlord?-I have paid them all along through him.

4468. Then there is-To account in Boddam shop, 18s. 61/2d.; to account in Grutness shop, 1s. 9d.; and then on April 25, by cash, 6, 14s. 7d.: that shows that you had not settled until April 25th?- Yes.

4469. Are you often as late as that in settling?-No; that was the latest I ever knew.

4470. Was it your fault that the settlement was so late?-No; I should have liked to have settled sooner.

4471. Do you know any reason why you could not have settled sooner, even in November, when the fishing was over?-I don't know any reason for that, except that they did not want to do it. That is the only way in which I can account for it.

4472. Have you asked for a settlement to be made with you at that time?-I have not; because I thought there was no use doing it.

4473. There are entries here-by saith, by ling, by cod: were these for small fish caught during the winter?-There was a company of men who were pursuing the herring fishing; one part of the company were trying to prosecute the saith fishing for a time, until the others saw whether there were any herring to be got, and my proportion was one-twelfth share of the fish caught at the time.

4474. That was an extra thing altogether?-Yes; and each man's proportion was put in his account.

4475. Is the amount of cash paid you, 6, 14s. 7d., a usual sort of sum for you to get at settlement?-No; it is sometimes smaller. Sometimes it is nothing at all, and I have been in debt.

4476. Has that happened often?-Yes, it happened frequently for some years before that. I have no accounts for these years.

4477. I see that in 1865 there is marked a balance of 2, 1s. 5d. Was that a balance which was due by you the year before?-Yes.

4478. Then 1864 had been a bad year, and Mr. Bruce had advanced you money above the price of your fish for that year?- Yes.

4479. Was that money advanced to you after settlement?-No; it was a balance that had been carried over some years before.

4480. When that balance was existing, did you consider yourself obliged to deal in Mr. Bruce's shop rather than at another?-I was obliged so far to deal at his shop, because I could not think of going to another man and asking credit from him, when I saw no way of making provision to pay him. I could not expect any man to supply me in my necessity when I had no possible way of repaying him.

4481. But you were already in Mr. Bruce's debt?-Yes, at that time I was.

4482. Would you have been bound by that, supposing you had not been bound by the terms on which you held your land, to deliver your fish to Mr. Bruce, and to deal at his store?-No, I don't believe I would, if I had been at liberty to deal elsewhere at any other time.

4483. Have you ever paid any fines or liberty money for yourself or for any of your family?-None whatever.

4484. Have you understood that you were liable to pay such fines?-I understood that I was liable to pay a fine or to receive a warning if I did not fish for my landlord.

4485. But would you have been liable to pay anything besides being afraid of being removed?-I don't know anything about that.

4486. In 1865 you had got cash advances to the amount of 10, 7s. 2d., and your account at Mr. Bruce's store that year was only about 30s?-Yes.

4487. I suppose in that state of matters, you are pretty well content with the state of things as they are?-I might be well enough content with the state of things as they are, only I am bound to fish for him alone, and for no other man.

4488. But you are not bound to deal at his store?-No; I don't believe he compels any man to be bound to his store entirely.

4489. Is there really any compulsion, either direct or indirect, to deal at his store?-No; not so far as I know.

4490. Even although you are in his debt, you are not bound to deal at his store?-No; I don't believe he would oblige me to do that.

4491. But you have as much credit to deal at another man's store as at his,-I mean you get an account opened as readily at another man's store as at Mr. Bruce's?-Yes.

4492. When you are in debt to Mr. Bruce, is it as easy for you to open an account at Mr. Henderson's store, and to get goods on credit there, as to get goods Mr. Bruce's shop?-I might find it as easy, only I don't know whether Mr. Henderson would be inclined to give it to me.

4493. Do you think Mr. Henderson would not be as willing to give it to you as Mr. Bruce's man at Voe?-I think he would not, if he saw no way by which I was likely to pay him.

4494. Mr. Henderson, I understand, does not buy fish?-He does.

4495. But he knows that you would not be at liberty to sell your fish to him?-Yes, he knows that.

4496. Do you think you would get a better price for your fish if you were selling them to him?-I don't believe I would get any worse.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, HENRY GILBERTSON, examined.

4497. You are a fisherman at Dunrossness?-I am.

4498. Have you a piece of ground of your own?-I am not a landholder. I live with my sister and brother-in-law.

4499. I have received a letter from Dunrossness, dated 30th December and signed Henry Gilbertson: was that letter written by you?-No. There is another person of that name living at Dunrossness.

4500. How do you distinguish yourself from him?-I am a fisherman, and he is a tailor.

4501. Is he a relation of yours?-He is my cousin.

4502. You have heard the evidence of William Goudie to-day: do you know from your own experience that it is in the main correct?-So far as my experience goes, I could not say that he has deviated a single word from the truth.

4503. Were you, when young, employed as a beach boy?-No. I would not go, because if they had bound me to that, I would have left the island, as I did.

4504. Did you leave in order to avoid being employed as a beach boy?-It was not exactly for that; but I was past being a beach boy before Mr. Bruce took the fishing.

4505. You have now come back there, and employ yourself as a fisherman in Mr. Bruce's boats?-Yes.

4506. Are you settled with at the end of the year?-Yes; in the same way as the landholders are settled with.

4507. Do you run an account at the store in the same way, also?- Yes, sometimes; but I am under no obligation to do so, because I am a man who can get credit at any place.

4508. Do you consider yourself at liberty to fish for any person you please to engage with?-Not at all. Although I sit as a lodger in my brother-in-law's house, I am under the same obligation to fish for Mr. Bruce as one who is a landholder.

4509. How is that?-Because if I did not do so, my brother-in-law would be warned out for my offence.

4510. How do you know that?-Because I have evidence to prove it in the case of a brother of my brother-in-law's, who dried a few hundredweight of fish for himself, and for that offence his father was warned out, and had to pay a fine of 31s. 6d. before he got liberty to sit.

[Page 112]

4511. What was his name?-James Harper, sen.

4512. Was that long ago?-Six or seven years ago. I could not say exactly to a season back or forward.

4513. Did you know of that case at the time from Harper himself?-Yes, I was acquainted with the circumstance, and the day before I came here the man told me he had to pay the money.

4514. So that has served you as a warning, since you came back to live with your brother-in-law, that you must fish to Mr. Bruce?- Yes.

4515. Do you think you would be better off if you were at liberty to deliver your fish to any merchant you liked?-I would.

4516. In what way?-Because I could make more of them.

4517. Would you get a larger price for your fish?-Yes. I would perhaps get a larger price; but then I would have a great advantage too by curing them for myself.

4518. Do you think that would really be a great advantage?- Decidedly; and I can prove it by the case of a man who has prosecuted the fishing with me this very season, Laurence Leslie. I was one of the crew with him.

4519. Don't you think he was particularly fortunate last year, and that very often your fish might be spoiled in curing, and would not bring so good a price?-We have all cured our fish before, and we never lost anything worth speaking of in that way.

4520. Where have you cured your fish before?-In the same place where I now live.

4521. Was that before these restrictions were laid upon the tenantry?-Yes; one year before and one year since the restrictions were laid on.

4522. Then you have done it since without being challenged?- Yes; but it was by their own good-will that they allowed me to do it.

4523. You had some favour shown you?-Yes.

4524. How did that happen?-They just told me they would not disturb me, as I was a young man, and could either stop or go as I thought fit.

4525. If you had been a tenant, you think you would not have had the same liberty?-No, I would not.

4526. You say you can get the same credit at any other store that you can get at Mr. Bruce's: do you mean that you can open an account and get your things without paying for them until the end of the season?-Yes.

4527. Can you do so at Gavin Henderson's store, for instance?- Yes; or in Lerwick.

4528. But does the merchant with whom you would open an account of that sort not know that you fish for Mr. Bruce, that you are bound to deliver all your fish to him, and that you may at the same time be running an account at his shop which would have a preference at settlement over any account you might open in Lerwick or at Henderson's?-I generally give them to understand how I am circumstanced, and they advance me accordingly.

4529. Do you generally have a large balance in cash to receive when settling with Mr. Bruce?-I have only prosecuted the fishing there for three years; I have settled for two of these years, and for this one I have not settled yet.

4530. Do you get an account when you settle with him?-Yes; I have got a copy of it for one year. [Produces it.]

4531. Do you get that as a matter of course when you are settling with Mr. Bruce?-I asked for it, and he did not refuse to give it to me.

4532. This account is for the settlement which took place in April last?-Yes.

4533. It shows-June 27, 1870, to cash for self, 1; Sept. 16, to cash for self, 1; Dec. 22, to amount to credit of Paul Smith: what does that mean?-It was a small sum I advanced a brother-in-law of mine to help him to pay his rent. It was entered from my account into his, and was the same as cash.

4534. Jan. 6, to cash for self, 10s.; to fine for swine, 2s. 6d.: what was that fine for?-The landlord has a law that if you allow your swine to go at large, and the officer for that purpose catches them outside your house loose, he imposes a fine of 2s. 6d. upon you for each offence.

4535. Is that law in the regulations of lease, or is it just an understood thing?-It is understood to be a law that he has made.

4536. But you are not a landholder?-No; but the swine belonged to me.

4537. Then there is, to a ticket and medal for 1871, 3s.: that is for the Fishermen's Society?-Yes.

4538. March 15, to account per Henry Gilbertson, 3s. 4d.: what was that?-That was a small balance that was advanced by him for me to the other Henry Gilbertson.

4539. To 11/2 bushels salt from Scatness, 1s. 6d., by amount from boat's account, 19, 4s. 31/2d.: that was the amount of your earnings?-Yes.

4540. How many others were there in the boat?-There were six.

4541. Then, to account in Grutness, 3, 8s. 21/2d., to cash, 10, 15s. 81/2d.; in all 19, 4s. 31/2d.: that was the whole of your account for that year?-Yes.

4542. Have you anything to say about the prices of the things you get at Grutness store?-They are rather above the figure usually paid for the same things in other parts of the country.

4543. Have you compared the prices there with the prices at which you can get the same articles elsewhere?-Yes; for instance of meal.

4544. Have you bought meal there?-Yes.

4545. Was it entered in the account you have shown me?-Yes; but all my account at the shop, whatever it was for, was entered in that account in one slump sum, so that the price cannot be distinguished from that. There are no details given there of the shop account.

4546. Were the details of that account read over to you?-Yes; or I read it over.

4547. Did you find it to be correct?-Yes, generally.

4548. But you think the meal was charged higher than it could be got for elsewhere?-I am sure of it.

4549. Do you remember what price it was charged at?-Yes.

4550. Did you take a note of it at the time?-I took a note of the quantity at the time; but I did not know the price until settlement.

4551. Have you a pass-book at the store?-[Produces pass-book.] That is what I keep for myself. These [showing] are the entries for 1870, the year to which the account applies. When I knew the price of an article when I received it from the store, I put it down in ink; but I did not know the price of the meal, and I put it down in pencil when I came to settle.

4552. Here [showing] is half boll oatmeal, 11s?-Yes; and these are the ranging prices in Lerwick for the same year: March 1870, per boll oatmeal, 17s. 9d. May, 18s. 6d.; July, 20s.; August, 21s.

4553. Where did you get these?-I got them from a merchant in Lerwick this morning, Mr. John Robertson, sen. The note containing them is in his own handwriting.

4554. Did he refer to his books before telling you what the prices were?-Yes, he turned up his accounts for that year.

4555. And these are the prices at which he told you he sold meal here?-Yes.

4556. For cash or for credit?-I cannot say.

4557. Have you ever been directed by Mr. Bruce or Mr. Irvine to look after men who were supposed to be selling their fish to other curers?-I have.

4558. You shake your head in a very serious way at that: did you not like the job?-I did not.

4559. When was it that you were told to do that?-At last settlement.

4560. That would be in April 1870?-Yes.

4561. Were there some men who were supposed to be inclined to sell their fish to some others?-Yes.

4562. Was any particular man named to you, or was it just a general direction to look after them?-There was just a general direction given to us to inform them of any men who did so.

[Page 113]

4563. Did you keep a lookout for that?-No; I have not gone to look yet.

4564. Have you seen any of the men endeavouring to sell their fish to other people-to Messrs. Hay & Co. for instance, or to Mr. Gavin Henderson?-I have seen them selling to Messrs. Hay & Co.

4565. Were these the small fish caught in the winter, or were they part of the catch of the boats that went to the summer fishing and the haaf fishing?-They were the small fish caught in the winter. I never saw any of the summer fish sold by any of Mr. Bruce's tenants to Messrs. Hay & Co.

4566. I suppose there is a greater inclination to sell the small fish caught in the winter for ready money than the summer fish?-Yes.

4567. Why are the men readier to do that?-Because, when they sell their fish to Messrs. Hay & Co., the merchant knows what he intends to give for them; and daily and nightly, when the fish have been delivered, they go to Hay & Co.'s store and get the value for them, and there is no more about it.

4568. They settle for them at once?-Yes,

4569. In money or in goods?-Generally in goods; but Messrs. Hay's man will give them a shilling or so; whereas, if they had to go to Mr. Bruce's store with them, they would not know what they were to get until the settlement, neither would they get the goods at so low a figure.

4570. They get the goods cheaper at Hay & Co.'s?-Yes, a little.

4571. Is there any other article than meal the price of which you have compared with what it could be got for at other stores?-Not particularly, because I have not had much dealings at the store, as I generally dealt with other merchants.

4572. Is there anything else you wish to add to what you have said or to what the other men have said?-Nothing particular.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, JOHN HARPER, examined.

4573. Are you a fisherman at Lingord, Dunrossness?-I am.

4574. Do you hold land there under Mr Bruce of Sumburgh?- Yes.

4575. Do you hold it subject to the condition of delivering your fish to Mr. Bruce in the same way that the other men have spoken to?-Yes.

4576. You have heard the evidence of William Goudie, Laurence Smith, and Henry Gilbertson?-Yes.

4577. Have they described correctly the way in which you deal at Mr. Bruce's shop for goods?-Quite correctly, so far as my experience goes.

4578. Do you deal in the same way?-Yes; but I deal very little there.

4579. Where do you get your goods?-I get them at different places, but my chief dealings are at Gavin Henderson's. I have also some dealings at Mr. Bruce's store at Boddam, kept by Henry Isbister, which is close beside where I live.

4580. Do you generally receive a large balance at the end of the year in cash?-Yes, I am always paid in cash.

4581. How much of a balance in cash did you get last year?-I cannot remember exactly; and I have no copy of my account.

4582. Was it 5 or 6, or more?-I think it was 5 or 6, and the rest of my earnings went to pay my land rent and shop accounts.

4583. Have you made any comparison as to the prices of goods at the Boddam shop and the prices at which you could get them elsewhere?-I have not made a strict comparison, but the Boddam shop and the other shops do not differ much in most things.

4584. Have you anything to add to what has been said by the other witnesses?-We would be very happy to have the liberty of curing our fish ourselves.

4585. Have you tried that?-Yes; I have tried it in former times before I was taken under Mr. Bruce.

4586. Where was that?-At the same place where I am fishing yet.

4587. You had your liberty then?-Yes.

4588. Do you think that in those days you made a larger profit on your fish than you do now?-I did; but there would be a difficulty in doing that now, unless we had the power of using the beaches to dry our fish on. If we did not have that power, we could make nothing of it at all

4589. In those days the price of fish would be quite different from what it is now? It would be much lower when you used to cure your own fish?-In the former part of the time when I used to cure them it was lower than it is now, and indeed it was rather lower all through. I don't know exactly what those that cured their own fish this year have got for dried fish, but I think I got 10s. 6d. per cwt. of dried saith of my own curing during the last year when I cured them.

4590. What is the price now for cured fish?-I have heard that it is 12s.

4591. I suppose there was not much difference in those days in the price of cured fish?-No; but it did differ according to seasons. Every season was not exactly alike.

4592. Would that be twelve years ago?-Yes.

4593. In what way have you calculated that you would make more profit upon the fish of your own curing than is paid to you by Mr. Bruce?-I have just made a calculation in my own mind according to the quantity of fish I caught then and what I catch now. It is merely a calculation of my own, and I do not say it is exactly correct.

4594. Did you make that calculation lately?-No; only I have always been of that opinion since I was obliged to deliver my fish to Mr. Bruce.

4595. Have you not made a note of the value of your green fish, the expense of materials for curing, and the value of the labour that you would require to put upon them, in order to ascertain whether you would get as much for your cured fish as you do for your green, or more?-I have paid some attention to that matter; but of course, in any case where a man dries his fish for himself, he must expect to have a little more work than he has when delivering them green. There would thus be extra expense for my own labour.

4596. There would also be the price for salt, and other things required, in the curing?-Yes; we would have to calculate all these things.

4597. Would you not be at a disadvantage from not having vats and other apparatus suitable for curing?-There would be rather a disadvantage in that way now, but there was not such a disadvantage formerly, because we had these things; and when we were stopped from curing for ourselves, we had to dispose of them as we had no use for them.

4598. Did each fisherman commonly possess these things?-Yes, at that time.

4599. Or was it each boat's crew who owned these implements?- Yes.

4600. Each boat's crew had a supply of apparatus for curing their fishing?-Yes, for their own use. They generally had a vat and other instruments according to what they required.

4601. Do you think they were as skilful in the use of these instruments as the curers are now?-I don't think they were very much behind, because the curer who cures the fish we catch now was formerly a fisherman, as I am myself. Further than the experience of years may have taught him, he knew nothing better about it than I did, for I cured fish when I was a beach boy, and I was also the head in it all through, until I was stopped from curing.

4602. In forming that opinion with regard to the profit which you would have by curing your own fish, have you taken into account the risk of having your own fish spoiled in the curing?-Of course we must run that risk.

4603. Then you might gain something in one year, but in another you might lose to some extent in the [Page 114] curing?-That is quite possible; but still, in the experience I formerly had, the loss was nothing to speak of.

4604. For how many years did you cure your own fish?-For a good many, perhaps five years. There is one thing I should like to state which has not been mentioned already; but I don't exactly know how far it will fall within your inquiry. That is about the days' works which are required from us in addition to our land rent.

4605. What do you mean by days' works?-It is labour imposed upon the tenants by the landlord. They must work three days' work in summer. We don't exactly work these days' works in summer where we live; but we are bound to carry a boat of peats to those who live near Sumburgh, which stands in place of our three days in summer. Then we have to work three days in harvest, and three days in vore ( spring). Thirty hours, if I remember right, is what they exact; and we get nothing for it, not even a supply of victuals. We have to carry our victuals with us when we are to do our work there.

4606. Is not that really part of the rent which you pay for your land?-We don't suppose so, because our land is valued, and we have to pay for it in cash, or it is taken off our account.

4607. You mean that you have to pay your rent in cash, and to give the days' works besides?-Yes; and we have to pay a poultry fowl for each merk of land.

4608. Is not that really just part of your bargain for the land?-It is the way we have done hitherto.

4609. If you were agreed, would not the landlord commute these services and payments into a money payment. You might make a bargain to give him so much money, and thus get rid of these things?-I have never disputed these things; but I believe they have been spoken of to him, and he does not appear willing to relieve us of the burden, which we think is rather hard one.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, GEORGE LESLIE, examined.

4610. Are you a fisherman and tenant under Mr. Bruce at Mill of Garth, Dunrossness?-I am a fisherman, but not exactly a tenant.

4611. You don't hold land?-It is much the same. The land is held in my father's name, and I live with him.

4612. Are you bound to fish to Mr. Bruce, as being one of your father's family?-Yes.

4613. You have heard the evidence of William Goudie and the other witnesses from Dunrossness. Do you think it is generally correct?-I think it is generally correct; but Laurence Smith did not appear to know much about the shop at Boddam, except for ropes and iron, and so on, which is much about the same price as elsewhere.

4614. Can you say anything more about that shop than he did?- The tea, cotton, canvas, and moleskins are all much higher there than at Henderson's. I have no note of the price at Henderson's; but I have notes of the prices at Boddam in my pass-books.

4615. What is the price of moleskins at the Boddam shop?-I don't know if I have the price of any moleskins here.

4616. Is this [showing] your pass-book at the Boddam store?- Yes.

4617. Is it kept by the shopkeeper there?-It is kept by Isbister. I took it back and forward every time I got goods, and had them entered there. That book is for 1868.

4618. I see it is for Hans Leslie, and not for George Leslie. Is your father's name Hans?-Yes.

4619. This book only comes down to February 1869. Have you not kept a pass-book since then?-Yes; but it is not settled yet.

4620. Is that account from March 1867 to February 1869 [showing] not settled?-Yes, it is settled; but the account for 1870 is not settled yet. I have it in another pass-book, because this one had fallen aside.

4621. And you have now another one in the hands of the shopkeeper?-Yes.

4622. Do you know the prices which were charged against you for goods in 1870?-No. I have seen them in the pass-book when I had it at home; but don't remember what they were.

4623. But the settlement for 1870 is past?-Yes; it was 1871 I was thinking of.

4624. But there is nothing in this book for 1870?-No. This [producing another book] is the book for 1870 up till the settlement of 1871.

4625. Have you no pass-book in your possession later than that?- No.

4626. Show me some of the things in that book which are charged higher to you than you could have got them elsewhere?-I say that tea and cotton are generally charged higher. I have had very little cotton from that shop, but I have asked the prices, and found them much higher than at Henderson's, so that I took what cotton I wanted from Henderson's shop, and not from the shop at Boddam.

4627. Were you quite at liberty to deal at Henderson's shop if you liked?-Yes; we were at liberty in the way that some of the other men have described. If we did not have the prospect of paying what we were due, then we did not want to run into debt to a number of men.

4628. Have you generally ready money that you can go to Henderson's with?-No.

4629. What is the reason of that? Is it on account of the long settlement?-That is a thing which has something to do with it, and sometimes I have not had money to get at settlement; but when I asked for an advance from Mr. Bruce, I always got it.

4630. I see from this book that cotton is 1s. a yard at the Boddam shop: I suppose that was the price then?-It has sometimes been 1s., and it has sometimes been higher.

4631. I see there is tea at 10d. a quarter: is that the best tea they sell at that store?-They seldom have any but one sort.

4632. Do you generally get all the articles you want at the Boddam shop?-Yes.

4633. Would you like to have a greater number of things to choose from than there are there?-No. We do not take anything there except what we cannot do without. We wish rather to take it at another place.

4634. Only you cannot always get credit at another place?-I never was refused credit, only I did not like to run a heavy account with another man who was having no profit but upon his goods.

4635. Would you have been more ready to deal with Henderson if you had been at liberty to sell your fish to him too?-Yes.

4636. Is there a fair price charged for soap at the Boddam shop?- There is not very much difference of price upon it. The soap generally is pretty fair at Boddam.

4637. I see here an entry of 11/2 lines, 3s. 5d.: are these lines for your fishings?-Yes.

4638. Is the price of lines there as moderate as at other places?- The lines differ in quality. Sometimes we have them as good there as in other places, and at other times not so good.

4639. But what about the price of them? Are they as cheap there as at other places?-If the quality is as good, they are. [Produces another pass-book.]

4640. Is this the book in which you enter the fish as they are delivered?-Yes.

4641. Who enters them there?-Myself. It is example of how we mark down the fish. That book contained an account which I had running with Gavin Henderson in 1867, and I afterwards used it as a fish book with Mr. Bruce.

4642. You enter the fish in this book, and Mr. Bruce's factor enters them in a book of his own besides?-Yes.

4643. Do all the boats' crews keep books in which they enter their fish in the same way?-So far as I know they do.

[Page 115]

4644. Is that the only way you have of checking the amount of fish you get?-Yes.

4645. At the end of the year you see the quantity you have delivered as it is entered in the landlord's book, and you see that you get credit for it in your account with Mr. Bruce?-Yes.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, ROBERT HALCROW, examined.

4646. You are a fisherman at Lasettar, in Dunrossness, and you hold land from Mr. Bruce of Sumburgh?-Yes.

4647. You are bound to deliver your fish to his factor, and you settle at the end of the year in the same way as William Goudie and the other men have described?-Yes.

4648. You have heard all their evidence?-Yes.

4649. Is there anything you wish to add to it or correct in it?- Nothing.

4650. Do you know anything about the knitting which is done by the women in Dunrossness?-There is a little knitting done in my family. It might be more agreeable to some people to be paid in cash than in goods; but others again say that if they did not get the same price in cash for their hosiery as they get in truck, they would not be gainers.

4651. Do they want the goods they get for the hosiery?-Yes; and they might not get the same price for their knitting in money as they get for it in barter.

4652. Do you know the price which they get in goods from the merchants in Lerwick?-Yes.

4653. Would they not get the same goods at a lower price in money, at any of the shops in your neighbourhood?-I am not aware of that.

4654. You have never heard them say that?-No. With regard to the evidence which has been given by the other men, I may be allowed to say that perhaps I have had a little more experience than some of them, but the statements which they have given have just been what I would have made myself.

4655. How long have you been on the property?-For eleven or twelve years.

4656. Did you receive a notice, when young Mr. Bruce became tacksman, that you were expected to fish for him?-I did not receive any notice; but I was missed; he passed over me.

4657. Why was that?-I was taking in uncultivated ground to build a house upon, and I did not pay rent then.

4658. Were you aware that a notice of that kind was given to the tenants?-Yes.

4659. Is there any one here who received that notice?-I don't think any one received the notice individually, but there was a public notice that they were bound to fish for Mr. Bruce, and that they would be removed if they did not do so.

4660. How was that notice given?-By a bill placed in a public place for the tenants at large to see.

4661. Did you see it?-No, I did not see it. With regard to the Boddam shop, I have had dealings there, and also with Gavin Henderson; but there are things I require which are not kept in the Boddam shop at all.

4662. What articles do you want that you cannot get there?-I want some kind of clothing which they do not keep, and several other things; but the things they have, such as tea, tobacco, cotton and canvas, I find to be somewhat dearer than at Mr. Henderson's or in Lerwick.

4663. How much dearer is the tobacco?-It will be a penny or twopence a quarter lb.

4664. Have you bought tobacco at both places?-Yes.

4665. What have you to say with regard to the tea?-It is from 4d. to 8d. dearer per pound.

4666. Have you tried it at both places also?-Yes.

4667. Do you think you get the same quality at both?-It is the same quality. I have had to pay sometimes 9d. and sometimes 10d. per quarter for tea at the Boddam shop; and when I went to Mr. Henderson's shop, I got the same tea for 8d.

4668. So far as you could judge, was the tea at both places of the same quality?-Yes, so far as I could judge, it was. Then for the cotton I would pay 2d., and sometimes more than that, per yard more in the Boddam shop than in Gavin Henderson's, or at other places.

4669. But if the prices are so much higher at the Boddam shop than elsewhere, why do you go there when you say you are not obliged in any way to take goods from the Boddam shop? Why do you not go to Gavin Henderson's for them?-I am obliged to go to the Boddam shop and take my goods there if I have no money in my pocket to buy them elsewhere.

4670. Does that often happen?-Perhaps not very often with me, but it happens as a general thing among many of the men. I believe there are as many men who have to go to Mr. Bruce's store, and take their goods there, in consequence of the want of money to pay for them at other places, as there are who can go and open accounts with other merchants and pay them yearly.

4671. Is there anything else you can say about that?-There is nothing more concerning that; but I have one thing more to say concerning our bondage, or our liberty, in fishing to Mr. Bruce. I have never had any help in paying rent or purchasing meal for my living, or such things as I required for clothing, except from what I could earn myself. I have sometimes had little clear money to get, and sometimes I have been from 2 to 6 behind in my accounts with Mr. Bruce, but he never charged me anything for that. I was fishing to him, and obedient to him, and he never interfered with me until my earnings paid up my debt account; but he would give me supplies although was in his debt, and if I got money from him, even when I was in his debt, I was at perfect liberty to go where I liked for the goods I wanted. If I ran up an account at any other shop, he gave me money and I settled it; and then at settlement time, if I had any money remaining to come to me, I got it in cash after he had deducted the value of any goods I might have got from his store.

4672. But when you were in his debt at the end of the year, in the way you have stated, were you obliged to go to his store for your provisions, and your supplies of cotton and clothing?-I would be obliged to do so, unless I could work at any other trade, or do any other thing during the winter by which I could earn money to purchase things at other stores. I may work outside, or do a little mason work, in order to get some money; and he will not bind me so much as if he were to see me earning nothing, but he would allow me to keep that money, and go to other stores with it, and purchase what I required. If I have a cow or a horse to sell, I can sell it, and he will never inquire or push me for the balance. I can get my money for it, and go to other stores for my meal and several things.

4673. If you sell a beast off your farm, while you are in debt to him, he does not object to you applying the price as you like?-He has made no objection; but when a man is in debt to him, he expects to get the first offer of it.

4674. He expects that a man who is in his debt will offer his cow or his pony to him first?-Yes, he looks for that; he has always expected it.

4675. When that is done, who fixes the price?-He will state his price; and if the owner is dissatisfied with it, he will give him a chance of offering it at public sale.

4676. And when it is offered at public sale, what is done then?- The sale is generally in Mr. Bruce's own hand, and the purchaser gives him the money; and then the owner who disposes of the animal will go to him if he is in want of supplies, and he will probably get them.

4677. Are there sales in your district at certain times?-Yes.

[Page 116]

4678. Where do these take place?-At Dunrossness, near the church; twice a year, in the spring, and in the fall.

4679. Is it at these sales that you have a chance of selling your beasts, if you do not agree with Mr. Bruce about the price?-Yes.

4680. And at these sales is there perfect liberty to any person to bid?-Yes.

4681. You can sell them to any person who bids a higher price than the laird offers?-Yes; but the conditions of sale are that the purchaser has to pay the money to Mr. Bruce.

4682. Is that one of the conditions and articles of roup which are read over at the commencement of the sale?-Yes.

4683. Does that condition apply to every lot that is sold, or only to lots that belong to men that are in Mr. Bruce's debt?-It applies to every lot that is sold. On all the properties there, on Simbister, and Mr. Grierson's estate and Sumburgh estate the cattle are called in; people who have cattle to sell are asked to bring them in to the sale.

4684. But nobody is obliged to expose their cattle at these sales unless they please?-There have been cases where we were obliged to dispose of them: for instance, if a man was very deeply in debt, he would be so far forced to bring his cattle and sell them; and the money went into Mr. Bruce's hands, and was put to the man's credit.

4685. You mean that it was credited to the man's account that was settled at the end of the year?-Yes. When young Mr. Bruce first began to take charge of the Sumburgh estate he wished to have all the tenants clear; and for that purpose he published a sale, and forced one of the tenants to bring his effects there, in order that his debts might be paid off. At the sale, Mr. Bruce himself appeared and gave a far higher price than the current price for the material which was being sold, in order to bring the man out of debt.

4686. Who was that man?-Malcolm Irvine, Lasettar. That is the only case of that kind I am acquainted with; but I believe there are more cases of the same kind throughout the parish, where Mr. Bruce paid a higher price for the articles than the market value of them, in order to bring the men out of debt. Of course, that was a favour to the men.

4687. Then, these sales are always fair transactions?-I think they are fair, so far as we can discern, because they do not differ in any way from other sales throughout the island. The terms and conditions of roup are the same at them all.

4688. Is there anything else you wish to say?-There is only forty days' warning given before Martinmas. No doubt that may be well enough for tenants in a town like Lerwick, who hold nothing except a room to live in, but it is very disagreeable for a tenant holding a small piece of land as we do. As soon as our crop is taken in, we must start work immediately, and prepare the land for next season. We have to make provision for manure, and collect our peats, and prepare stuff for thatching our houses, and perhaps by Martinmas we have expended from 6 to 10 worth of labour and expense on our little farms. In that case, it is a very hard thing for us to be turned out of our holdings after receiving only forty days' notice, and perhaps only getting 1, or 2, for all that labour. Now, what I would suggest that instead of that short notice we should be entitled to receive a longer notice, perhaps six or nine months before the term, that we are to be turned out.

4689. Do you think you would be more at liberty to dispose of your fish, and to deal at any shop you pleased, if you were entitled to that longer warning?-I don't think the warning would alter anything with regard to that; but if I knew that I was to be turned out at Martinmas, I would probably start fishing earlier, and I might have a larger price to get for them instead of working upon my land.

4690. But you can be punished more easily by your landlord for selling your fish to another man, when he can turn you out on forty days' warning, than if he could only do it on six or eight months' warning?-I think it would be much the same with regard to that.

4691. You don't think that would make any difference as to the fishing?-It might make a little difference, because if I received my warning in March, and knew that I was to leave at Martinmas, if I saw that I was to have a better price for my fish from another, I would not fish to my landlord at all; but I would go to any man I would get the best price from.

4692. Do you think you would be better off if you had your fish paid for as they are delivered?-I don't think that would serve me any better. It would serve young men who are not landholders better; but I don't think it would serve landholders better than to allow the price to lie, and to settle once in a season, because sometimes our crops are so scanty that we have only perhaps two parts or three-fourths of a regular supply of meal for our living; and if I got the price of my fish paid to me every time when I came ashore, or on the Saturday night, we might perhaps live comfortably for awhile, but then at Martinmas, when our rents were due, and our fishing earnings were spent, we would be in a hard case, because where would our rents come from?

4693. Do you think you would be likely to spend your earnings as you got them?-In some cases that would be so, because occasionally we have to live on a very small allowance of provisions, perhaps one-half or three-fourths, and we suffer from that. I think it is better if the money for our fishing is preserved for a time in our landlord's hands; because, in the first place, we like to have our rents paid.

4694. Would it be any advantage to you to have the price of your fish fixed at the beginning of the season?-It might and it might not, because here in Shetland we are paid for our fish according to a currency. The principal curers in the country arrange what the price is to be, and, so far as I know, they have it in their own power to make the currency whatever they think fit.

4695. Do you think the current price is fairly fixed?-I cannot judge of that, nor can any one outside, because I don't know what has been realized for the fish in the south. It is a matter which rests upon their own conscience, whether the merchants fix a fair current price or not.

4696. But you think they have the fixing of it?-Yes, they do fix it.

4697. Do you think it right that they should have the fixing of it, and that you should have nothing to say to it, when it is according to that price that you are paid?-We have no experience in the matter, or else we should have a voice in it.

4698. If you were at liberty to cure and sell your own fish, would you not have something to say in fixing the market price at which the fish were to be paid?-I think we would.

4699. Supposing the price of your fish were settled at the beginning of the season, and that you knew then what it was to be, do you think you would manage your purchases during the season better than you do now, according as you took a large or a small quantity of fish?-I don't think so.

4700. If you were only taking a small take of fish, you would see, as the season went on, that you could not have a large balance at the end of the year?-I don't think that would matter much for me. It might do for a family in which there were two or three men but for a man who held a certain tack of land, and had to support a family, I don't think it would be any advantage. In my case, there is only myself earning anything, and it takes the greater part of my fishing, year by year, to pay for my meal and land rent.

4701. I suppose what you mean is, that you are obliged to live at a certain rate of expenditure, and that you cannot reduce that rate any lower, however poor your fishing may be?-No, I cannot.

4702. So that you must take the bad years and the good years, and make up in a good year for what you have gone behind in a bad one?-Yes, that is what I mean.

[Page 117]

4703. Therefore the present system suits you as well as any other?-It does.

4704. You could not economize more, although you knew what you were to receive at the end of the year?-I don't see that I could.

4705. And you could not manage your money any better, although you had it in your hands, and could spend it in Lerwick, or in any other store, except that at Boddam?-I don't see that I could. I have not taken any meal from Mr. Bruce now for three years, but I have taken a good deal of things out of his stores.

4706. Have you got your meal from your own ground?-No. During the past season I had to buy very little; but since I came to the place I am now in, I have sometimes had to buy seven, and eight, and nine months' provisions, besides what my own labour upon my farm could yield.

4707. Where did you buy your meal then?-At that time I had some from Mr. Bruce, and some from other places.

4708. But I am talking of the last three years, when you did not buy any of it from Mr. Bruce?-I have had it from Lerwick, and also from a store at Sand Lodge. Lebidden is the name of the place where the store is.

4709. Whose store is that?-Thomas Tullochs's.

4710. Why did you buy it from these stores rather than from the store at Boddam?-Because I could get it cheaper; I would pay some money for it at these other stores.

4711. What did you get it for there?-I don't recollect the price.

4712. I suppose the price varied?-Yes.

4713. And you got it at that price by paying it at the time you got it?-Yes; I got it at as low a price as it could be got anywhere. Besides, I took weaker qualities of grain as being cheaper than what Mr. Bruce had, such as second flour or third flour, and so on, when Mr. Bruce, would have had nothing but barleymeal and oatmeal.

4714. Does he only keep one quality of meal at Boddam store?- He keeps more than one quality, because he has had grain from his own farm to supply his fishermen and tenants with; and he has also had Orkney meal there, which was cheaper than Scotch meal.

4715. But you say that you could get weaker qualities than what Mr. Bruce kept. Do you mean that the qualities were inferior?- Yes.

4716. Were they inferior to any that Mr. Bruce had?-Not to what grew on his own farm, but to any that he had at that time, or what he generally kept.

4717. But I am talking of the last three years during which you have had none from Mr. Bruce. Were the qualities at the other stores inferior to what Mr. Bruce kept?-When I was having none from Mr. Bruce I did not know exactly what qualities he had.

4718. But you knew that what you were getting was cheaper than what you could get at his store?-Yes, I knew that.

4719. Is there anything more you wish to say?-No; I think that is all.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, LAURENCE SMITH, recalled.

4720. I believe you saw the bill, which was put up when Mr. Bruce came, to which the witness Halcrow referred?-Yes, I saw it. There was a man sent round among the tenants with a letter, and he read it to them.

4721. Who was the man?-He is dead: it was John Harper, Virkie.

4722. To whom was the letter addressed?-To the tenants generally. Sometimes when he came to a town, he called the tenants together and read it to them; and when he met one of the tenants by himself, he just read it over to him.

4723. Were the tenants called together at Trosswick, where you live?-Yes.

4724. Was the letter read over to the whole of them at once?- Yes.

4725. Did you hear it?-Yes.

4726. Do you remember its terms?-I do not; but the letter was from old Mr. Bruce, and the substance of it was, that he had given us over into the hands of his son.

4727. As tacksman?-He did not say whether it was as tacksman or not, but he said that the penalty of our not fishing to him would be that we should get our warning.

4728. Was it stated in the letter that young Mr. Bruce was setting up as a fish-curer?-I could not exactly say, but it was known to the tenants that he was going to do so.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, HENRY GILBERTSON, recalled.

4729. I believe you were at Fair Isle three weeks ago?-Yes; three or four weeks ago, with a smack belonging to Mr. Bruce.

4730. Was that for the purpose of delivering supplies of provisions to the people on the island?-It was for the purpose of landing two men on the island, one of whom was to be a farmer, and the other was a mason to build dykes.

4731. Had you been there before?-Never.

4732. Did you meet with any of the people while you were there, and talk with them about the way in which their shop was supplied?-Yes, I met almost all of them, and I got some information about how they deal at the shop, because they inquired at me at what prices the articles were sold in Shetland.

4733. Are the people there supplied with provisions and goods from the shop at Dunrossness?-No; there is a shop on the island which is supplied from the shop at Dunrossness.

4734. Do you know anything: about the prices of goods at the shop on Fair Isle?-There was a man belonging to the island-I don't know his name-who told me that he had paid 1s. 4d. per quarter for tobacco. There was a general complaint that the prices were above the currency charged in Shetland.

4735. Did the people seem to think that there was a better way in which they could be supplied?-Yes; they seemed to think that if they had their liberty to sell their fish, to the best advantage, they could supply themselves from Orkney or Shetland with goods at a cheaper rate than they could get them for in Mr. Bruce's store in Fair Isle.

4736. Do you think anybody would be willing to go to Fair Isle to buy fish and sell goods?-There were plenty would do so if they had the chance. Mr. James Smith, of Hill Cottage, Sandwick parish, used to go there, but he was stopped from doing so by Mr. Bruce when he bought the island.

4737. Did the people on the island speak as if they were worse used than they had been formerly?-They spoke as if they got their articles cheaper from Mr. Smith than they could get them now.

4738. How long were you on the island?-I was there for eight days, and I was in almost every house.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, HANS SMITH, examined.

4739. You are the master of a smack which sometimes visits Fair Isle for Mr. Bruce?-Yes.

4740. Do you take a quantity of goods to the shop there from the shop at Dunrossness?-Yes, sometimes from the shop at Dunrossness, and sometimes the [Page 118] goods are ordered from the south; and we get them from the steamer at Lerwick, and take them direct to the island.

4741. Do you know anything about the prices at which these goods are charged at the shop on the island?-No; I could not speak positively about that.

4742. Do you know whether the people on the island are satisfied with the supplies which you take to them?-They are satisfied with them so far; but they object to the price realized for their fish as being lower than what is paid in Shetland. I think that is about the only thing they object to. Of course they also think that the prices for the goods are dear; but still they are not so much dissatisfied with that.

4743. I suppose it involves a little expense to get the goods carried from the mainland to Fair Isle?-Of course it does.

4744. There is a risk from the weather in taking them there?-Yes; there is a risk of damage, and there is not a safe harbour there.

4745. Does any one trade to Fair Isle except your smack?-No, not regularly. There are some people who go in occasionally, but there are no others who go very often from Shetland. There is one boat belonging to James Rendall, of Westray, in Orkney, that goes occasionally.

4746. Is it within your knowledge that other traders are not allowed to go to Fair Isle to sell their goods there?-Yes; I believe the people are not allowed to buy from them. They do not exactly stop them; but I think they tried to do it.

4747. Have you known that being done at any time when you were at the island?-I think I have been there twice when James Rendall was there; and he chiefly sold in the night time when I was asleep, and I did not know what was going on.

4748. Why was that?-I don't know. I never asked him why he did it. The people are scarcely allowed either to sell to him or buy from him.

4749. Was it not because the factor forbade him to sell to the people at all that he dealt with them during the night?-Of course the factor forbade him from dealing with them, and he would have noticed if Rendall had dealt with them in the day time. I don't think the people were so much stopped from buying from him as they were stopped from selling to him. They were not allowed to sell any cattle or horse, or anything they had, to him.

4750. How do you know that?-Because I saw it myself. I have heard the factor and the people talking about it, and I know they were not allowed to sell.

4751. Have you heard the factor forbidding them to sell their cattle to Rendall?-Yes; they have told me themselves that it was 2 of a fine if they sold anything to him.

4752. Whom have you heard the factor forbidding to sell to Rendall?-I have heard the factor talking to lots of them about it. There was one, Thomas Wilson for instance; he was forbidden.

4753. Do you know that he wished to sell cattle to Rendall?-Yes; I know that he had a cow last year for which Rendall offered him 5, 10s. on the island, and he was afraid to sell her to him. The factor told him he had better not sell her.

4754. Was it in your presence that he told him so?-Yes; and Wilson came over to Shetland with us; I don't remember what he got for the cow here, but I think it was 4, 1s.

4755. You brought the cow over to Shetland yourself?-Yes.

4756. Who was the factor?-Jerome Wilson.

4757. Did he tell Thomas Wilson that he must not sell his cow because he was in arrear of rent, or in debt?-No; he was not in debt; he had some cash to get at the time of settlement.

4758. How do you know that?-Because he told me himself. I went home with him to his house, when he settled last summer,-I think in June or July.

4759. Do you know of your own knowledge that the cow afterwards sold for 4, 1s. in Shetland?-I think that was what it sold for.

4760. Did you see it sold?-No; but Thomas Wilson told me about it. I was at the sale that day. I was not present when the cow was sold, but Wilson told me about it at night.

4761. Do you buy hosiery from the Fair Isle people?-The factor, Mr. Wilson, buys it for Mr. Bruce.

4762. Do you sometimes bring it over here?-Yes.

4763. You don't know anything about the way in which the people are paid for it?-I don't know.

4764. Is Jerome Wilson likely to be in Shetland soon?-I don't know whether he is or not, but I don't think it. He just buys up the hosiery, and then sends it over to Mr. Bruce. I think the people get goods chiefly for it; but I am not sure. I have seen it sold, and seen them getting goods for it.

4765. Have you seen anybody else buying it on the island? Have you ever bought any of it?-No; not much.

4766. But you have bought a little?-I have bought a pair of stockings; that was all.

4767. Did you pay cash for them?-Yes.

4768. What do the people do with their money in Fair Isle?-I am sure I don't know; they have not much to do with it there.

4769. They cannot purchase goods with it?-They can purchase goods; because when we are going in with the smack, they are always going out and in, and they are glad to get as much money as possible. There are none of the people out of the island just now that I know of.

4770. When will you be going back to it?-Not until the month of April, or the 1st of May.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, ROBERT MALCOLMSON, examined.

4771. You are a fisherman and tenant on Mr. Bruce's lands at Northtown of Exnaboe?-I am.

4772. You have heard the evidence of William Goudie and Laurence Smith?-Yes.

4773. Does it give a fair account of the way in which you deal in fish and purchase goods with Mr. Bruce of Sumburgh?-Yes, it gives an accurate account of it, so far as my experience goes.

4774. Were you a beach boy when you were young?-Not to Mr. Bruce. At that time the men had their liberty and cured their fish for themselves.

4775. Do you know anything about the way in which beach boys are dealt with now?-No.

4776. None of your family or friends are beach boys?-None.

4777. Have you known of any case in which a man was turned out, or threatened to be turned out of his ground for selling his fish to another than the proprietor?-Yes; I know one case. That was the case of Thomas Harper, James Harper's son, who was referred to before.

4778. That was a good many years ago?-Yes.

4779. Is there anything you wish to add to what has been said by the other men?-Nothing, so far as I remember.

4780. Do you think you would make any more of your fish if you were allowed to cure them for yourself?-We generally think so.

4781. Have you ever made any calculation about that?-According to hearsay from other quarters, and contrasting our case with theirs, we have a rough idea that we would make more on the whole.

4782. Do you think there is any disadvantage to the men in having such long settlements as you have at Dunrossness?-In some cases there is.

4783. Do you think it would be better for you to be paid for your fish as they are delivered?-In some cases that would do very well, but in other cases it would not. Some men and some families would, so to speak, go beyond their income; and at the end of the season, when their rent was due, they would have nothing to [Page 119] give to their landlord. They would not have saved any money for the rent.

4784. But is it not the case that fishermen nowadays save a good deal of money?-Some do, and some do not.

4785. Have not a good many of your friends large deposits in the bank?-No; that is not the case with many.

4786. Are you sure of that?-I would not be positive; but so far as I know, it is not the case.

4787. I suppose a man does not speak very much about his bank account down about Dunrossness, when he has one?-No; but I don't think it is very common for them there to have one.

4788. Do you know anything about the price of meal at the shop where you deal?-I have an idea of it, but only at settling time.

4789. At which shop do you deal?-At Grutness store.

4790. Do you run up a large account in the course of the year?- Generally I do.

4791. Does your account take off most of the price of your fish?- Yes, the most of it.

4792. You only get a small balance at the end of the year?-Yes, if I have it to get; but if not, Mr. Bruce is kind enough to make me a small advance as I need it.

4793. Of course that is on the footing that you are to fish to him next year?-We understand so.

4794. Do you think you would get your meal cheaper at another store than at Grutness, if you had liberty to deal at another store?- I think so, according to what other people say.

4795. Have you inquired the price of meal at Messrs. Hay's shop there?-I have not inquired about it myself.

4796. What do you pay for your meal at Grutness store?-It varies according to the quality and the current price of meal.

4797. Do you pay the same price for it all the year round?-Yes.

4798. Is that generally the price which prevails at the end of the year at settling time, or is it an average of the prices that have prevailed during the whole year?-When it all comes to be summed up, it is generally a little in advance, on the whole, of what we could buy meal for at another shop,-for instance, at Hay and Co.'s.

4799. Is the quality of it as good as you could get at Hay & Co.'s?-The quality is good.

4800. Is there anything else you want to add to the statements of the other witnesses?-No.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, THOMAS AITKEN, examined.

4801. You are a fisherman at Eastshore, in Dunrossness?-Yes.

4802. Are you a tenant of land under Mr. Bruce?-I am only tenant of a room, not of any land. I hold a house there.

4803. Are you bound in any way to fish for Mr. Bruce?-Yes; I signed an agreement to fish for him when he took the fishing in his own hand at Grutness, eleven or twelve years ago.

4804. Were you a landholder at that time?-No; but I was living in my father's house, and I was bound to fish for Mr. Bruce like the rest.

4805. What was the document you were asked to sign?-The general tenor of his statement was, that he was to give the current price, and I was bound to fish for him while I was living on his estate.

4806. Have you any objection to adhere to that bargain?-I am of the opinion that, if I had had my freedom, I might have made a little more from my fish than I have done.

4807. But would you not have your freedom simply by removing to another place?-Not in Dunrossness.

4808. You mean not on his land?-No, nor on Mr. Grierson's land. I would be bound to fish for Grierson under the same rules if I were to remove to his property.

4809. Do you live with your father still?-No; my father is an old man, and he has ceased to hold land.

4810. Do you consider yourself still bound to fish for Mr. Bruce, even although your father does not hold any land from him?-Yes; I consider I am bound while I am living on his estate.

4811. Have you any copy of the agreement which you signed?- No.

4812. Where did you sign it?-In the shop at Grutness.

4813. Who asked you to sign it?-Mr. Bruce's factor, or his farmer who was in Sumburgh at that time who was sent round among the tenants with a letter from old Mr. Bruce, intimating to them that his son was to take the district into his own hands, that they were to fish for him, and that any one refusing to fish was to leave.

4814. That is the letter which Laurence Smith has spoken of?- Yes.

4815. But did you sign anything?-Yes, I signed a paper, stating that I would rather stay and fish for him than that I would flit.

4816. Was that after the letter had been sent round among the tenants?-Yes.

4817. How long after?-A few days perhaps,-not more.

4818. Were you asked to go to the shop and sign it?-Yes.

4819. Were any others asked to sign it?-I believe there were.

4820. Was it the factor who asked you to sign it?-Yes. Gilbert Irvine was the factor; he asked me to sign it, and I signed to him. The paper was there, ready for us to sign.

4821. Was it read over to you?-Yes.

4822. What was the substance of it?-The substance of it was just what I have stated-that if we would fish to Mr. Bruce on these terms, we could stay on the land; and if not, then we would have to go.

4823. Were there many people who signed it at the same time with you?-No.

4824. Was there anybody else who signed it at the same time?-I could not exactly say. I don't think there was anybody in the house when I signed it, but there were a great many names to it before I went in.

4825. Was it signed by landholders only, or by those who had merely a room?-There were very few at that time who merely held a room. There are not many yet who do so; but the document was signed generally by the fishermen who fished there.

4826. Was the thing you signed an obligation to fish for Mr. Bruce so long as you occupied a room or a house on his ground?-Yes; I so understood it.

4827. But if you ceased to occupy that house or room you would be free?-Yes; and we could go to another place.

4828. You settle every year in the spring?-Yes.

4829. Do you generally have a balance in your favour?-Not very often. I have no land, and therefore I have to rely upon my own fishing, or what work I can do for him when I am called upon to work.

4830. Are you bound to work for Mr. Bruce as well as to fish for him?-I am not bound to work for him; but if I am in debt to him, of course he will call me out to work.

4831. But he will pay you for it?-Yes; but I am not quite satisfied with that pay. It is only a penny for one hour's work.

4832. Does that go into your account?-Yes.

4833. Have you got any pass-book at the shop?-No; I have no pass-book there. I see the articles which I receive from him entered into his book, and I told the price of most of the things when they supplied to me; but the principal thing which I get from the store is meal, and I never know the price of it until the day when I come to settle, or until I hear it from any person who has settled before me for the same year.

[Page 120]

4834. Do you know what price you paid for it at last settlement?- I paid the same price for it as the other witnesses you have examined-22s. for Scotch oatmeal, and 20s. for barley-meal.

4835. Do you think you could have got your meal cheaper than that elsewhere?-Yes, I am under that impression.

4836. Have you asked the price of it elsewhere?-Yes; Mr. Hay's factor at Dunrossness had meal which was cheaper at that time.,

4837. That was in the spring of last year?-Yes.

4838. How much cheaper was it?-I cannot remember exactly; but if I had had money, I could have purchased it cheaper at many places besides that.

4839. Did you not get advances of money in the course of the year from Mr. Bruce?-Yes.

4840. Could you not have got as much as you asked?-I did not want to ask more than I thought I could stand to. I did not want to get far in debt to him.

4841. Did you get a balance at last settlement paid to you in money?-Yes; if I had a balance at the end of the year, it was paid to me in money.

4842. But did you get a balance last year?-I was about clear then.

4843. You were not much more than clear?-No.

4844. Do you remember how much you got at that time?-I asked for 1 of advance from him at the settlement, and he gave it to me.

4845. Do you mean 1 more than the balance due to you?-Yes.

4846. Were you in debt at the previous settlement in 1870?-Yes.

4847. Were you also in debt in 1869?-Yes.

4848. Was the balance also on the wrong side for you in 1868?-I don't think it.

4849. Do you think you had something to get in 1868?-If I remember right I had.

4850. Do you remember how you stood in 1867?-I think that I was clear.

4851. But you had not much to get?-No.

4852. You are a married man and have a family?-Yes.

4853. Is there anything you wish to add to what you have heard the previous witnesses say?-Nothing further than just that I am not satisfied with my wages.

4854. Have you not something to say yourself in fixing your charges?-No.

4855. How is that? You need not work unless you know what wages you are to get beforehand?-No; but there is no general work there to work at. Mr. Bruce is the only man who has work to do and when a man is in necessity he must work.

4856. Can you not get land of your own?-No; I am not able to hold any land, because my family are sickly, and are not able to work upon it.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, HANS MAINLAND, examined.

4857. You are a fisherman at Northtown of Exnaboe, on the land of Mr Bruce of Sumburgh?-I am.

4858. Have you heard the evidence of the previous witnesses?- Yes.

4859. Has it generally been a correct description of your way of dealing with the shop at Sumburgh, and with Mr. Bruce for your fish?-So far as regards the store, I have never been obliged to take anything from it. I always went and bought my goods for ready money from any place where I could get them cheapest.

4860. Why was that?-Because as a general rule, I heard the people complaining that they were obliged to take their goods from the store, and that they were dearer there than they could be got elsewhere.

4861. Had you any difficulty in getting the balance due to you at the settlement at the end of the year in cash?-No.

4862. You always got money?-Yes.

4863. Was money also advanced to you in the course of the year before settlement, if you wanted it?-Yes, if I asked for it.

4864. What amount might you get advanced before settlement?- If I had asked it, I would have got perhaps 10 or 20. Of course I had a little money in Mr. Bruce's hands, so that I was not requiring to draw any money from him that was not due to me.

4865. Is there anything you wish to add to the evidence which has been given already?-There is one thing I should like to say with regard to the present law on the subject of leases. Mr. Bruce has the power of turning out men who have made a great many improvements on his estate, and perhaps, they may be turned out without receiving any compensation whatever. I am one of those who have done it great deal for it. I have expended upwards of 100 worth of labour and material on his ground.

4866. Before laying out that expense could you not have made an arrangement with the landlord that he should repay you for it if you were turned off?-So far as I am aware, he has never been prepared to give any rules or regulations to that effect.

4867. Has he not offered you a lease?-He has offered us a lease; but I don't think there is any party in Shetland who would accept of it.

4868. Have you ever applied for a different lease?-I have never applied for a lease at all. There was no use doing so, so far as I knew. But I think that when a party lays out money in improvements on master's estate he ought to be paid for it.

4869. But a man who lays out money upon another man's, land knows quite well before he begins that he will not be paid for it, and he takes the risk of the landlord being kind enough and able to repay him part of these expenses. It may very well be that the landlord is a poor enough man as well as the tenant, and that he cannot afford to put improvements upon his land; and yet the tenant goes and spends a lot of money on it, expecting the landlord to repay him for improvements which the landlord himself would not have made, if he had had the land in his own hands?-That may be quite true; but so far as I have understood, Mr. Bruce has always taken a great interest in having improvements made upon his land.

4870. That, however, is hardly a question into which I can enter here unless you think it has some bearing upon the system of payments at the shop, or the system of payments for the fish?-It has no bearing upon these questions at all, so far as I am aware, except perhaps in this way, that for four months in the winter season the fishermen are lying at home to a great extent, idle. The fishing commences about 1st May, and it finishes in the end of August. Then they have to gather in their summer crops; and during the winter season, and the early part of the spring, they have very little to do; while a person of an active turn of mind does not like to remain idle for such a length of time. They want to be doing something, and they will engage to any one who has work to give them.

4871. Have you anything more to say about that?-I have nothing more to say except this, that when person is a tenant at will, and liable to be removed after having made improvements on the estate of any proprietor, he ought to receive compensation for these improvements.

4872. Would it be possible for fishermen in Shetland to carry on the business of fishermen alone without being tenants?-Not so far as my judgment goes.

4873. Why?-Because the small earnings from the fishing could not support him, neither could the land itself support him in the way it is laid down present.

4874. And I suppose, if the holdings of land were larger, a man would have no time to attend to the fishing?-No, he would not. If the holdings were larger, of course the men would have to occupy the whole of their time with the ground.

4875. Don't you think that, with an improved system of agriculture, you would find enough occupation on [Page 121] holdings of the present size for the whole year?-Not in my opinion; they are too small for that.

4876. Not even by following out the rules and regulations which Mr. Bruce has offered you?-No.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, ADAM LESLIE, jun., examined.

4877. You are a fisherman at Toab, in Dunrossness?-I am.

4878. Have you heard the evidence of the previous witnesses?- Yes.

4879. Does it fairly describe the system under which you hold your land and fish for Mr. Bruce of Sumburgh, and the way in which you deal at his shop?-Yes, I think it does.

4880. Is there any addition you wish to make to the evidence which has been given, or any correction upon it?-No.

4881. Have you a pass-book at the shop?-No.

4882. Do you deal at the shop at Grutness for the goods you want for your family?-In part I do.

4883. Do you find that, at the end of the year, you have generally a balance in your favour, or is it against you?-I cannot say that it is much against me.

4884. Do you get payment of that balance in money?-Yes.

4885. Do you also get advances in money, in the course of the year before settlement, if you want them?-Yes; whenever I ask for them. Our place is far away from the bank, and sometimes Mr. Bruce may have run out of money by so many people having gone and asked it from him; but if I go to him and ask him for money, and he does not have it, he tells me when to come back and get it.

4886. In that case, when you get the money, do you spend it generally at Mr. Bruce's shop, or do you go and deal at some other store with it?-I generally go to some other store.

4887. Do you find that you get your goods cheaper at another store than at his?-I am under that impression, but I never compared his goods with those of other merchants.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, GEORGE WILLIAMSON, examined

4888. You are a fisherman at Eastshore, Dunrossness, and a tenant on Mr Bruce's land?-I am.

4889. You have been there for thirteen years?-Yes.

4890. Do you remember a time when the fishermen got their freedom there?-That was before I came to the place.

4891. Were they understood formerly to be bound?-Yes, in old times they were bound; but, just about time when I came there, old Mr. Bruce gave them their liberty, and they were all free.

4892. Was there an understanding previously, that they were bound to fish only to him, or to his tacksmen?-Yes: but, two or three years before I came they got their liberty.

4893. Was there any payment made for that?-Each landholder had to pay 15s. a year for his freedom.

4894. Was that just an addition to their rent?-Yes.

4895. The rents were raised, and the fishermen had liberty to do as they liked about their fish?-Yes.

4896. From whom did you learn that?-It was given out by Mr. Bruce, and by all the tenants.

4897. But you said you were not there at the time?-I was not.

4898. Then you learned that when you came from common report?-Yes, just from common report.

4899. Was your father a landholder there?-No. I removed from Mr. Bruce of Simbister's ground to that place.

4900. Have you held your ground at the same rent for the thirteen years you have been there?-No. The rent has been raised a good deal since I came, in addition to the 15s.

4901. During all your time have you been free to deliver your fish to any person you chose?-I was free to do so until twelve years back, when I became bound to deliver my fish to Mr. John Bruce.

4902. That was by the letter which has been spoken of already?- Yes.

4903. You have heard the evidence of William Goudie, and the other men who have been examined?-Yes.

4904. Was it generally correct as to the way in which you deal about your fish?-So far as I could judge, I have not heard a wrong statement made to-day; and there has been nothing left for me to add to it.

4905. You agree with them that you can get money when you ask for it?-Yes.

4906. Is the bulk of the price of your fish paid to you in money or in goods?-I take goods according as I require them. I have meal and other things; and whatever is over, after paying my account at the shop and my rent, is cheerfully paid to me, the same as I would pay it to my son. There is not a freer man at paying money to his tenants than Mr. Bruce is. I have been 6 in debt, and asked him for advances, and he has given them to me.

4907. Was that after settlement?-Yes.

4908. And, of course, that was given to you on the understanding that you were to be fishing for him next year?-Yes; I was fishing for him by sea, and working for him by land.

4909. If you had not been fishing for him, would you have got an advance of that sort?-But I was fishing for him, so that I cannot tell that.

Lerwick, January 9, 1872, JAMES FLAWES, examined.

4910. You are a fisherman, and tenant under Mr. Grierson at Rennesta, near Quendale?-I am.

4911. Are you under any obligation to deliver your fish to Mr Grierson?-Yes.

4912. Is he a fish-merchant and fish-curer?-He is a fish-merchant, and he has men under him for curing his fish.

4913. Is your obligation a written one, or is it part of a verbal lease of your land?-When young Mr. Grierson got the fishing, he read out a statement to his tenantry at large, in the schoolroom at Quendale.

4914. How long ago was that?-Twelve years ago. That statement which he read gave the tenantry to understand that he was to become their fish-merchant, or the man they were to deliver their fish to; and that they were all bound to give him every tail of their fish from end to end of the season, as long as they held their land under him. If they did not do that, they knew the consequences: they would be turned out.

4915. Was that all stated to you in the schoolroom on that occasion?-Yes; it was all read off by Mr. Grierson himself.

4916. Were you present?-Yes.

4917. Did he state that you would be paid for your fish according to the current price at the time of settlement?-Yes; that was stated also at that time.

4918. Was it stated how that current price was to be ascertained?-It was to be the currency of the country, particularly the prices paid by three or four merchants who dealt in the same kind of fish that he received from his tenants.

4919. Did Mr. Grierson name the four merchants whose prices were to rule?-The four merchants who generally agree together are Mr. John Robertson, [Page 122] Messrs. Hay, Mr. Bruce of Sumburgh, and Mr. Grierson.

4920. How do you know that these merchants agree together as to the prices?-Because the tenants of the whole of them generally get the same price for their fish.

4921. Do not all the tenants in Shetland generally get the same price for their fish each season?-No; there is a difference.

4922. Do you know that the tenants of these four parties always get one price?-Yes; generally it is the same price that is given to them all.

4923. Do you know that the tenants on other estates get a different price?-Yes, I know that.

4924. Can you mention any case in which that has happened?- Yes. There are a few merchants in Sandwick parish who get fish from a few boats there-James Smith, James Mouat, and Thomas Tulloch-and they always give a little higher.

4925. Do these merchants keep shops as well?-Yes, they have shops too.

4926. Do the men who fish for them deal at their shops?-I understand they do.

4927. Can you tell me how much Tulloch and Smith have paid for their fish?-In some years they give 6d. per cwt. more than Mr. Grierson and the other merchants I have mentioned, and for some kinds of fish 9d. more.

4928. What price did you receive for your fish at last settlement?-Last year, I think, we got 7s. for ling, or 7s. 3d., I could not exactly say which; 5s. 6d. for cod, and 3s. 6d. for saith.

4929. Do you know how much the fishermen got from Tulloch and Smith?-I could not exactly say, but they got a little more.

4930. You knew that at the time?-Yes, I knew it at the time from the fishermen who were giving their fish to them.

4931. Do you know how much more they got?-I think it was 9d. more on some fish, and 6d. more on others. It might be a little more; but, I think, I am safe to say that.

4932. Do you know anything about the prices of goods at the stores of Tulloch and Smith?-No. I never bought anything from them.

4933. Young Mr. Grierson, whom you mentioned as having taken the fishing in 1861, is now the proprietor of the estate?-Yes.

4934. Does the obligation which was then imposed upon you extend to the sons of his tenants, as well as to the tenants themselves?-It extends to all.

4935. Do you know of any case in which any man upon the land has delivered his fish to another fishcurer than Mr. Grierson, and has been challenged or turned out for that?-I know one.

4936. Who was that?-Thomas Johnston, Garth, Quendale, son of John Johnston. He was out of a chance of fishing for Mr. Grierson at his station, but he got a chance to fish for Messrs. Hay, and because he went and fished for them, he could not come back to his father's house, but had to remain all winter and vore ( spring) with the man he fished for. Then he came back next spring and fished for Mr. Grierson again.

4937. Who prevented him from coming back to his father's house, if he had chosen to do so?-He was told by Mr. Grierson, that if he went and fished for another person, he would have to stop away, and that if he came back, it would be his father's warning.

4938. How long ago was that?-I don't recollect exactly; perhaps two or three years ago.

4939. How do you know that that warning would have been given to John Johnston?-Because it was part of the arrangement with Mr. Grierson from the very outset.

4940. But how do you know that Thomas Johnston was told he must leave the land and that his father would be turned out if he came back?-Because he told me so himself, and he evidenced it by staying away.

4941. Was it not more convenient for him to live near the station where he was fishing for Hay & Co., than to remain in his father's house?-He had to leave his own house and go away down to the west voe to fish.

4942. But was it not more convenient for himself to go there?- Yes, it was handier for him to live near the place where he was fishing.

4943. Are you sure that was not the reason why he left his father's house?-But the man he fished for did not live at that station: his house was away upon the west side.

4944. Was he not upon Mr. Grierson's land?-No, not that man.

4945. Do you know the case of any other man being challenged or threatened because he sold his fish to another fish merchant than Mr. Grierson?-Yes, I know of another case-James Shewan on the ground of Brough, belonging to Mr. Grierson's estate.

4946. How long is it since that case happened?-It was last year.

4947. What do you know about it?-Shewan did not have a chance of fishing at home for Mr. Grierson, and he also took a chance at the ness with Messrs. Hay & Co. They fished from the west voe then.

4948. What was the consequence?-The consequence was that Shewan had to pay 1 of liberty money.

4949. When was that?-This year.

4950. Was it before last settlement?-No; it was at this settlement.

4951. Is the settlement over at Quendale for last season?-Almost. There were a few boats not settled with when we came up.

4952. How do you know that Shewan had to pay liberty money this year? Did he tell you that he had had to pay it?-Yes.

4953. Did you see him pay it?-I did not.

4954. Was it added to his account when settling?-I cannot tell you whether it was included in the settlement, or whether he had paid it some months before.