I can hardly give you the detail of this very long conversation. It was very free and open on both sides, and convinced me that he was certainly, and at all hazards, to have the situation, of which I hardly had a doubt before. He pledged himself repeatedly to the public measures, and to a variety of details which it is not necessary to state, and left me with every personal expression and many wishes that I would reconsider my answer. The next moment, Fox came to me in the Prince's chamber, and I had nearly as long a conversation with him; he stated his knowledge that Lord Shelburne would succeed to Lord Rockingham, and his idea of throwing up. I stated Lord Shelburne's promises to measures, which I found Lord Shelburne had made to him; but the loss of the object, which was evidently a favourite point with him, seemed to affect him much. I repeated my apprehensions that the people would not stand by him in his attempt to quit upon private grounds, which from their nature would appear to be a quarrel for offices, and not a public measure. He saw all this, and said that it had been urged to him by several, but that he was not determined. I went into the House of Lords, where I found the Duke of Richmond, who was outrageous at the idea of a resignation, and who went before me in all I had said to Fox upon this subject; and you will easily conceive that this opinion was strengthened by the most explicit speech that I ever heard, which Lord Shelburne gave as his creed and the test of his conduct, and which indeed seemed satisfactory to every one who heard him.

This day has opened a new scene: the King declared his intention of giving the Treasury to Lord Shelburne; and it was proposed to Lord J. Cavendish to take the vacant seals, which, from variety of reasons, Lord John declined; and notwithstanding all that the Duke of Richmond could urge, Fox has resigned, and the King has accepted the seals. En nova progenies! Lord Shelburne keeps the Treasury, and it is supposed that Pitt is his Chancellor of the Exchequer; Duke of Grafton, Lord Camden, Conway, Duke of Richmond and Keppell remain, and mean to go on; who are the two Secretaries are not known. I have had a long conversation just now with the Duke of Richmond, who is unhappy, but determined to go on till the first breach on fair public grounds; and wherever or whenever he finds Lord Shelburne tripping, he has apprized him that he will quit, and the other has agreed to it, with every seeming profession of cordiality; and thus matters stand.

My opinion, from all whom I have seen, is that Fox has undone himself with the public; and his most intimate friends seem of the same opinion. I am now to request and desire of you, in the strongest terms, not to return from France till you hear further from me. Fox tells me, that you (being envoy) cannot come without the King's leave; and I must entreat of you, for the sake of the public, and of that Ministry which I trust and hope will still stand its ground, for the great and important objects which we had in view in March last—let me add, for your own sake—do not spread the alarm of returning till you hear from me again, which you certainly shall in a very short period. With every anxious hope and wish that affection can form,

I am, My dear brother, Ever yours, N. T.

I am anxious to inform you that the Duke of Richmond has pressed me to take the Secretary of State, as named by all our Whig friends; and I shall accept.[1] This is another reason for wishing you to stay till a few days clear up all our doubts and difficulties, in which I need not say how happy I shall be to see you so, and how cordially I love and esteem you. Adieu, my dear Tom.

[Footnote 1: This first part of the postscript is written in cypher.]

MR. SHERIDAN TO MR. THOMAS GRENVILLE.

Thursday, July 4th, 1782.

My Dear Grenville,

Knowing that you very much dislike your situation, I don't know how to call ill news what I am now going to inform you of. Charles has this day resigned the seals; as he is much engaged, I have undertaken to let you know this event, and make the last exercise of our office the sending a messenger to you, as it would certainly be unfair to lose a single hour in assisting you in your release. I understand you cannot leave Paris without leave from hence, as you have the King's commission; but by sending this to you directly, it will be in your own hands to require that leave in as peremptory terms as you please.

What relates to Lord Rockingham's death you are informed of. The day before it happened Charles made a question in the Cabinet on the policy of not reserving the Independence of America as a matter of treaty and the price of a peace, but to grant it at once unconditionally; on which he was beat. And immediately on Lord Rockingham's death, Lord Shelburne informs them that he is to be First Lord of the Treasury and the King's Minister, though against his wish, &c., &c. They proposed the Duke of Portland, which the King refused; and after a great deal of idle negotiation, in which it was evident there was no power left with our friends, the measure of to-day was determined on. Lord John Cavendish goes out with Charles, Keppel follows; but, to his shame, in my opinion, the Duke of Richmond, I believe, will remain. Mr. Pitt joins Shelburne, and will be either Chancellor of the Exchequer or Secretary of State. For the rest, it is not known whether they will make up out of the old set, or take all new. Conway also will stay. But still, those who go are right; for there is really no other question but whether, having lost their power, they ought to stay and lose their characters. And so begins a new Opposition; but wofully thinned and disconcerted, I fear. I am sure, however, that you will think what has been done was right. Fitzpatrick is here, but returning to Ireland; where, however, neither he nor the Duke will remain.

I write in great haste, which you must excuse. Yours ever truly, R. B. Sheridan.

What you hear of Cornwallis having lost some transports, is a matter of no magnitude.

MR. FOX TO MR. THOMAS GRENVILLE.

Dear Grenville,

You will not wonder at my being hurried too much at this moment to write you a detail of what has happened. I do assure you that the thing that has given me most concern, is the sort of scrape I have drawn you into; but I think I may depend upon your way of thinking for forgiving me; though to say one can depend upon any man, is a bold word, after what has passed within these few days. I am sure, on the other hand, that you may depend upon my eternal gratitude to you for what you have undergone on my account, and that you always must have the greatest share in my friendship and affection. I do not think you will think these [less] valuable than you used to do. I have done right, I am sure I have. The Duke of Richmond thinks very much otherwise, and will do wrong; I cannot help it. I am sure my staying would have been a means of deceiving the public and betraying my party; and these are things not to be done for the sake of any supposed temporary good. I feel that my situation in the country, my power, my popularity, my consequence, nay, my character, are all risked; but I have done right, and therefore in the end it must turn out to have been wise. If this fail me, the pillared firmament is rottenness, and earth's base built on stubble.

Adieu. Your brother disapproves too. Yours most affectionately, C. J. Fox.

St. James's, July 5th, 1782.

MR. THOMAS GRENVILLE TO MR. FOX.

(Private.)

Paris, July 9th, 1782.

Dear Charles,

You apologize for writing me only a few lines; I shall write you still fewer, and make no apology; for after what has passed, I count every minute that the messenger is getting ready to return, as so much time lost, however it is employed. You are sorry you have drawn me into a scrape; I know of none, at least none that an honest man could keep out of, or need be either sorry or ashamed to have got into; neither do I see what you have to regret in any part of this business, farther than the late hour in which it was done. You know my system upon that subject, and how firmly it was my opinion that you should not have lost one moment, to fight the battle with advantage, which, with or without, everybody saw must be to be fought; but, as long as it is fought honourably, it is sure to be successful in the end, for one day or other, right will always come right.

I suppose I need not tell you that I have answered Lord Shelburne's letter by the official information he desires, adding to it "my fixed purpose firmly to decline any farther prosecution of this business, and requesting him, as speedily as may be, to lay before His Majesty, in all duty and humility, my earnest and unalterable prayer that he will be graciously pleased to recal me from the commission I am honoured with at Paris."

I write too to beg my brother to press my immediate return. I see by his letter he knows nothing of what has passed. If you would show him my letter to you, at my request, under the strictest confidence, he will be apprized of the true state much sooner than if he waits till I come, when I shall certainly tell him; this, however, is at your own choice, if you had rather wait till I come.

Adieu. Pray thank Sheridan for his letter. I will write the first moment my messenger is gone. Well, what a time to be out of England! et Montauciel n'y etait pas! I don't think I can quite forgive you. No news here. They say they have taken eighteen transports from us, but they are not yet come into Brest.

Yours most affectionately, T. Grenville.

MR. THOMAS GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Paris, July 9th, 1782.

My Dearest Brother,

Your letter was given to me last night, and since I have been able to read I never felt so much agitated. I hastily send back the messenger, but he carries with him a letter to Lord Shelburne, in which I formally request my immediate recal.

My dear brother, you do not know my situation, or you would see in the first instant, as you will so soon as I can speak to you, that if I continued at Paris, I should be the meanest and most contemptible wretch that was ever born into the world; I should falsify my word, I should betray my honour, I should repay the confidence that was reposed in me with the most cowardly treachery, I should disgrace every feeling that is honourable and respectable between man and man. I have no choice; my immediate return is as much a duty and obligation upon me as can in human society be laid upon one who would not renounce the character of a gentleman. Judge, then, of the distressful situation I must have been in at the time of decyphering your last lines, and judge how sacred and indispensable those circumstances must be, that do not give me even room to hesitate in a difficulty of so much delicacy. I love you, my dearest brother, with the truest and sincerest affection; my pride and ambition are ten-fold more gratified in your situation of life than in any that could be mine; nor, so help me God! do I think there is an interest, an advantage, present or future, that I would not gladly sacrifice for you, if it could add one step to your greatness; but you love me too well not to shrink at the thought of my disgracing myself, and a fouler disgrace there could not be, than I should inevitably incur by staying at Paris as Minister.

One part of my difficulty you see already; it is that I dare not write even in cypher, what would save me all the embarrassment of this letter, and you the uneasiness of its obscurity, till I see you. My dear brother, reflect, if it is not too late, upon the opinions we have held in common, upon the judgment we have formed in common, of the rectitude and integrity of some men, and the utter and absolute want of it in others. Recollect, if it is possible, the uneasiness that you felt, the doubt that you expressed and I made light of, in the very last conversations we had together. Think over all that might have happened, and be persuaded that all has; think over the most pleasing parts of your last letter, and be persuaded that a few plain words, whenever I see you, will make you blot it out with indignation. But above all, I do conjure you, in the most solemn terms, to guard against expressing the surmises this letter may suggest to you, and to drop no word of suspicion or jealousy till I see you. The caution of this letter—to which I dare not add a cypher, however it must grieve me to speak to you in the dark—every circumstance, must show you how deeply my honour, how much more deeply than human wisdom could apprehend, my honour is involved in this business.

One word more, though I think every minute an hour till the messenger is gone. Trust me till you hear me; and above all, if you are applied to persuade me to stay, do not think of so doing; it may make the delay of one post, and that will hurt me; it can do no more.

God Almighty bless you, my dearest brother; a warmer affection no man can bear you. Think of all my impatience to see you, and do not forget that in pressing my recal, you do me a more essential and honourable service than you know. Once more, God bless you, my dearest brother.

* * * * *

Before Lord Temple had received this letter he had declined the secretaryship, and accepted the appointment of Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, his brother, Mr. William Wyndham Grenville (afterwards Lord Grenville) accompanying him as Chief Secretary. In the reply that follows, Lord Temple expresses the profound sorrow he felt at his brother's determination to resign, of which he was confessedly not in a position to form a competent judgment.

LORD TEMPLE TO MR. THOMAS GRENVILLE.

Pall Mall, July 12th, Eleven, P.M.

I have received your letter, my dearest brother, which has sensibly—I need not say how sensibly—affected me. My letter to you did not propose to decide upon the propriety of the great question, whether you should or not continue to keep the character in which you are now employed; of that I could be no judge. The total and absolute ignorance in which I have remained, since you left England, of what was passing at Paris, and the total want of information of what was passing here, so far as concerned your mission, make me wholly incompetent to the question; of that you must be the judge, and I trust and hope that your decision will stand every test. My object was solely to prevent the possibility of your coming away precipitately, and so far my point is gained. I will say nothing of the cruel situation in which I stand; I feel it most bitterly, and feel it the more because my affection to you has no bounds. I am not Secretary at State; but think, my dearest brother, what must have been my feelings, if I had (as was much pressed upon me from every quarter) accepted that department to which your negotiation was more immediately annexed, in confidence that you would have done that for me which you have done for Mr. Fox. If I had listened to that persuasion (and surely my heart might have prompted me to have done so), I might have had the mortification of finding myself in a situation which I can hardly think of without the most violent agitation; the voice of every one had pointed out to me that department; and every reason, public and private, seemed to call me to it. Think this over, my dearest brother, and tell me if the ties of private friendship are such as would have justified you to your own feelings for fixing upon me a disgrace, the extent of which I shudder at.

I know, I feel, that you love me; but, great God! to what have you exposed me! and, much as you value Mr. Fox, am I to think (good God! after the uniform affection, which has never felt more truly for you than at this hour) that you trust your honour and reputation in his hands to an extent that knows no bounds; and that the moment which calls upon you to withdraw yourself from your situation, is that which possibly had put your brother in that confidential public situation in which I trusted he had stood with you in private life? I cannot dwell upon this. I would have fought your quarrels, I would have felt with you every reason which may have induced you to urge this recal, possibly very prudently, justly, and honourably; but it was not necessary to convince every member of the Cabinet, that your honour, safe in the hands of Mr. Fox, was not so in mine. Good God! my dearest brother, loving me as you do, and knowing how I prize and value you, think over this picture of possibilities, and join with me (which is all I will ever say to you on a subject which cuts me to the very heart) in the happiness I feel, that motives, in which I will say that considerations for your credit, your honour, and your ease, were decisive, determined me to reject the first and to accept a second proposition. That die is cast; my opinion, my reputation, and my honour are pledged to it. I will believe, because it is my only joy at such a crisis, that your affections beat as highly to what conduces to my honour and situation as ever I could wish; and tell me, my dearest brother, if the whole tenor and every hour of my life has not proved to you how I valued your confidence, and how truly it would be my pride to consult your advancement; and if in taking this situation I have consulted what was most for the honour and ease of every one of my family, if I have peculiarly consulted the possible delicacy of your situation, and have sacrificed every favourite passion of my heart to it, think what my present feelings are, in the uncertainty of the extent of those sacrifices which you may still think yourself obliged to make. The thought, my dearest brother, distracts me; I hint it to you, but I shall not feel a moment's happiness till I see you. My letter is dreadfully incoherent, but it will paint to you the agitation of a mind struggling for its dearest and nearest object—the affection of a brother, whom from my childhood I have pressed nearest to my heart.—I cannot go on.

I called upon Lord Shelburne the moment I had your letter, and saw him soon after. I carefully obeyed every injunction, and pressed your immediate recal. He stated the necessity of calling a Cabinet, as he could not take it upon himself, and the King does not return to town till Wednesday. I urged it with every eagerness, and have prevailed that a leave of absence shall be granted to you to come away immediately, and this to prevent public mischief. But it is understood that you resign the commission on your arrival here. I have prevailed that the messenger is to return very early to-morrow morning; and most ardently do I wish to annihilate the next eight tedious days. Feel for me, my dear brother; consult your reason and your affection, and let me hope that you will feel that satisfaction which every one of my family most earnestly feels at my acceptance of the Lieutenancy of Ireland. You know what follows, and you will have time to think it over; but I conjure you, by everything which you prize nearest and dearest to your heart, by the joy I have ever felt for your welfare, by the interest I have ever taken in your uneasiness, weigh well your determination; it decides upon the complexion of my future hours. I am jealous and nice of your honour more than of my own; but think that I have staked my happiness upon this cast; and may God direct you, my dearest brother, to the only answer which can convince me that your esteem and affection equals that which I have ever borne you. God ever bless you.

RESIGNED. Mr. Fox. Lord J. Cavendish. Mr. Burke. Lord Robert Spencer. Lord Althorpe. Lord Dungannon. Mr. Townshend. Mr. Montagu. Mr. Lee.

These are all who have resigned.

APPOINTED Lord Shelburne _Treasury._ Mr. T. Grenville - Mr. Jackson _Ditto._ Mr. Elliott _ Mr. Pitt _Chancellor of the Exchequer._ Mr. T. Townshend _Secretary of State, Home Department._ Lord Grantham _Ditto, Foreign Department._ Sir G. Yonge _Secretary-at-War._ Mr. Aubrey - _Admiralty._ Mr. Pratt _ Lord C. Spencer _Vice-Treasurer._ Colonel Barre _Paymaster._ Vacant _Treasurer of the Navy._ Ditto _Solicitor-General._ Duke of Richmond - Duke of Grafton Lord Camden _Continue in their offices._ Lord Keppell General Conway _

Mr. Sheridan's name should be included in the above list of resignations. The vacancies of the Treasurership of the Navy and the Solicitor-Generalship were respectively filled by Mr. Dundas, afterwards Viscount Melville, and Mr. Pepper Arden, afterwards Lord Alvanley.

MR. FOX TO MR. THOMAS GRENVILLE.

Dear Grenville,

I am exceedingly obliged to you for your kind letter; and indeed, if political transactions put one out of humour with many, they make one love the few who do act and think right so much better that it is some compensation. I understand a messenger is just going, by whom I send this letter; he will bring you others, from whence you will learn that your brother is going Lord-Lieutenant to Ireland. If you go with him as Secretary, I hope you will be so good as to endeavour to serve my friend Dickson, who by this change has for the third time missed a Bishopric.

I called upon your brother yesterday, and left with him the letters that passed between you and me, explaining that it was at your desire that I did so. I was very glad to have your authority for this step, for to tell you the truth, I was very much inclined to take it even of my own when it was supposed he was to be my successor; now that he knows the whole of the narration, if he still chooses (as I fear he will) to go into this den of thieves neither you nor I have anything to answer for. If this transaction had been withheld from him, he might have had reason to complain of me, but much more of you. I have not heard from him since he has been au fait. His expressions, both to me personally and to the party, were so kind, that I am far from considering him as lost; but whether he is or not, and whatever part your situation may make it right for you to take in politics, I shall always depend upon your friendship and kindness to me as perfectly unalterable; and I do assure you that this consideration is one of the things that most contributes to keep up my spirits in this very trying situation.

Yours affectionately, C. J. Fox. Grafton Street, July 13th, 1782.

Lord Temple entered upon the Government of Ireland at a crisis of serious agitation. A short time before, under the Duke of Portland's Administration, a Bill had passed the Imperial Parliament, recognizing in full and in the most explicit manner the sole and exclusive right of the Parliament of Ireland to make laws for Ireland—establishing and affirming, in fact, the perfect independence of Ireland, legislative, judicial and commercial. This Bill had given complete satisfaction to the popular leaders. Even the Volunteers declared themselves appeased, and adopted final resolutions to that effect. But the factious and jealous spirit of the Irish was subsequently disturbed by indications on the part of the English Legislature of a disposition to depart in some particulars from this settlement, and by the unfortunate incident of some Irish appeals which lay over for judgment in England, the authority to adjudicate them having been relinquished, or disavowed, by the measure alluded to. The whole matter turned upon distinctions, but they were sufficient to influence the distrust of the turbulent, who were ready to seize upon any excuse for expressing their impatience of English authority. The introduction of a singular Bill by Lord Abingdon, having for its object the assertion of the sole and exclusive right of Great Britain to regulate her external commerce, and that of all countries under her sovereignty, and repealing so much of the former Bill as took that power out of the Parliament of Great Britain and vested it in the Parliament of Ireland, had the effect of affording an abundant pretext to the uneasiness which was now beginning to grow up in Ireland, and which Mr. Grattan exerted his utmost influence to dispel. Want of confidence, also, in the sincerity of Lord Shelburne's Ministry yielded an additional ground for national discontent. "Things were never more unsettled than they are at present," Mr. Perry writes to Mr. Grattan, in October, 1782; "some of the Ministry here are at open enmity with each other, and everybody seems to distrust the head." Such was the state of their affairs when Mr. William Wyndham Grenville came over to London to communicate confidentially with the Government on the part of his brother, the Lord-Lieutenant. The correspondence in which he details from day to day the results of his interviews with Ministers, and his observations upon the net-work of small difficulties in which he was involved by the want of unity in the Cabinet—especially between Mr. Townshend and Lord Shelburne on the Irish questions—is minute and voluminous; and only a few letters have been selected from the mass to show the course of ministerial diplomacy in reference to the equivocal relations subsisting at that period between the two countries. They form a running commentary upon a curious passage in Irish history; and although the circumstances to which they relate have long been completely disposed of, the Union having obliterated all the matters in dispute, the insight which they give us into the detail of Cabinet discussions, the occasional traits they bring to light of the characters of public men, and the calm and luminous views they develope of the distracting politics of Ireland, confer a permanent interest upon them. Two facts, by no means unimportant, are established in these letters—namely, the lively and judicious anxiety Lord Temple and his brother uniformly felt in their endeavours to restore the tranquillity of Ireland, and the impediments they met in their strenuous efforts to preserve the faith and honour of England in her transactions with that country.

MR. W. WYNDHAM GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Nov. 27th, 1782.

My dear Brother,

I saw Townshend on the evening of my arrival here, which was Sunday. Lord Shelburne was then out of town, so that I was of course obliged to state what I had to say to Townshend alone. This I did very fully, in a conversation which lasted near two hours, and in which, to say truth, Townshend bore a less part than I expected and could have wished. What he did say was, however, very fair and explicit. He expressed a strong determination in the King's servants to give you every possible support. He had found no opportunity (as I understood him) of convening a Cabinet on the affairs of Ireland, but had talked separately with all the Ministers upon the subject, and found in them no difference of opinion, except perhaps in General Conway, whom he thought "a little influenced by his nephew's pamphlet, and by his own natural temper, to look towards further concession." He saw little difficulty in what you wished; thought you best able to judge of the propriety of the moment for such a measure; and said it was the King's opinion, as well as his own, "that where there was not some marked difference of opinion, the Lord-Lieutenant should be left to himself, without however being abandoned." I stated to him pretty strongly the effect of the ideas of changes of men and opinions in this country. On that point, as far as related to men, I could get little or nothing from him, although I recurred to it more than once. At last he said that the same effects were felt here, and would be so till Government should show a sufficient strength and consistency in Parliament. Scarce anything more passed on his side, except strong expressions of personal regard to you, and a warm encomium on the Duke of Portland, and the language held by him on your subject, and on that of the state of Ireland.

He gave me hopes of seeing Lord Shelburne the next day; but the great man was at his recess at Streatham, and was not visible till yesterday. When I went to him, he began with unbounded expressions of a determination to support you as long as he had anything to do here. He understood that you went in great measure at his request, and therefore he considered it as common cause. He begged that his silence might never be construed into indolence or timidity: the subject was never off his mind. As a proof, he mentioned his former silence, at which you was alarmed, and its being followed by the most explicit declarations, in which you had professed yourself fully satisfied. After a great deal more of such verbiage, I stated your wish as to the dissolution. He objected strongly to the taking so capital a step till something was decided about the negotiation at Paris. If the war should continue, it would be necessary to determine on some plan suited to such an event. But if we had peace, the advantages to Government in Ireland would be great and almost infinite. Such an event would throw the Volunteers upon their backs, would bring back the army to that country and to this, and would also bring the fleet into the Channel. He dwelt very much on the great advantage of not being obliged to meet the Parliament till October, and when I hinted at the possible necessity of a contrary resolution, he argued strongly, and I think satisfactorily, against such a measure. He then concluded the conversation, expressing a perfect readiness to hear me again more at large on the subject. Seeing that he would not hear any more at that time, I ended with saying that I was not commissioned to state decisively your sentiments on this very unexpected event, but that I was sure you would feel much disappointed if a measure which you thought so necessary was postponed without the most serious consideration and the most urgent reasons. His answer was, that you might depend upon it that whatever determination was made on the subject would be most seriously weighed, and taken on the best grounds. He then told me that a Cabinet should be held to-day, to take the business into consideration.

To-day I dined with him, and saw both him and Townshend after dinner. They both stated in the strongest manner the inconvenience of so decisive a measure whilst a subject was in agitation, and must be decided in a very few days, on which the whole line and plan of your Government will have to depend. For these reasons, they said it had been judged most proper to postpone the Cabinet till something arrived from Paris. I ended my conversation with Lord Shelburne by saying, that in the event of war, I did not see how, after this delay, it would be possible to resist; and that in that light it was my duty to discharge my commission from you, and to state my own sentiments as far as they could have any weight, that a few days might do more mischief in Ireland than many years would be able to repair. Liberari animans meam. To this he replied, that I had done my part fairly, and that he would be answerable for the event.

After all this detail, you will possibly wish to know my sentiments upon the subject. From the whole of Lord Shelburne's manner, I think that he is inclined to deal very fairly by you, for his own sake. I have no doubt, from the style of his conversation, that he is determined, in the present situation of things, to stand the ground against concessions, and this both from his own opinions and those of the King. But he certainly either does not see, or affects not to see, the situation of Ireland in that very alarming light in which it must be viewed by every man acquainted with it.

As to the measure of the dissolution, I think you will agree with him, that if we were sure of the favourable event, the delay would not prove near so prejudicial on the one hand, as it would be advantageous on the other. And from the language he holds, I am persuaded, and Jemmy agrees with me in opinion, that he is convinced that they will have their peace. On the other hand, I cannot but say, that if the war continues, we shall be in an awkward situation. The whole depends on the greater or less probability of peace, to which we are neither of us competent to decide; and I have thrown, if not the disagreeable consequences, at least the responsibility of the measure on him.

In this situation of things, I thought you would rather choose that I should remain here to give you the very first moment of news, and to press then a Cabinet upon the affairs of Ireland in general, than that I should run back to you in our present uncertainty. You will observe, that although I have rather expressed myself to you satisfied with the affair, I have taken infinite pains not to let it appear to them; but on the contrary, have left Lord Shelburne in no small uneasiness about the manner in which you may take it; so that if you should be dissatisfied, I have by no means pledged you. If you think with me, the whole merit of it will lay at your door.

I desired Townshend to state to the King that I was ready to obey His Majesty's commands, if he wished to ask me any questions. He told me to-day that the King expressed himself perfectly ready to give me an audience if I wished for one. This I thought was better declined. I shall go to the levee on Friday, and shall be very impatient for your answer to this long detail.

Whatever your opinion may be of the line of conduct which I have held, I trust you will do justice to my zeal for your interests and honour, inseparably connected as they are, and I hope will ever remain, with my own, and to the sincere affection with which I am,

Ever most truly yours, W. W. G.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Saturday, Nov. 30th, 1782.

My Dear Brother,

I have just been with Townshend, who sent for me on the subject of a despatch from you, relating to the proceedings in the King's Bench here, on an Irish cause.

I have seen Troward, the attorney concerned in the cause, and from him have learnt, what you probably know by this time, that the case has been argued here, and the judgment of the Court in Ireland affirmed; so that nothing can be done in it here, especially as the Term has been over these two days. It is impossible not to see the use which will be made in Ireland of this unlucky business. You say nothing in your letter to Townshend of the Protest, nor have I heard a word on that or any other subject from Ireland since I have been here. But I much fear that the alarm among the Bar, upon a point which affects their private interests as well as their national pride, will have prevented, or in great measure impeded its being signed. The only grounds that you can take, as far at least as I can see, are those which I have desired Townshend to insert in his answer. The Bill of Exceptions was certified from an Irish Court. It has been depending eighteen months. The objection to the jurisdiction was never started. The King's Bench in Ireland either has been applied to or will be so next Term, to grant a writ of possession on the affirmance of the English Court. This will of course be denied them, and the whole English proceeding treated as waste paper. No Judge will allow—no sheriff will execute, any English process. No man will again be so absurd as to subject himself to a considerable expense to obtain a judgment of no more effect than the decisions of a Prussian court-martial would be as to a question of property here.

Still, however, I am far from being insensible to the clamour which will be raised, and to the advantage which will be taken of the opinion of the Court here, that their jurisdiction still remains, notwithstanding the Irish Act to the contrary. Possibly you may find it necessary to hold out some solution; and perhaps you will think the opportunity is not a bad one to cut the ground still more decisively from under Mr. Flood's feet than even by the proposed resolutions. What I mean is, the passing a bill here which should in the preamble declare the repeal to have been a renunciation of the rights formerly exercised by this kingdom over Ireland, and should enact that therefore for the future, no writ of error, &c., &c., should be received, signed or determined in any of the King's Courts of Justice in this country. If this idea should please you, it might be done immediately, and you might settle the words with Yelverton or Burgh.

If you think this too like a concession, you might hold out the idea of an Act to be passed in Ireland, inflicting the penalties of a praemunire against any persons seeking justice out of the kingdom; in imitation of the old statutes against ecclesiastics applying to the papal authority.

Lord Shelburne threw out to me the other day, but when I could not ask him any more upon the subject, the idea of a paragraph about Ireland in the King's Speech. I have writ to Townshend to-day, to desire that if this idea is pursued, he will let me see it before the words are finally determined upon. I think such a paragraph may have a good effect; because, when re-echoed in the addresses, it will include the three branches.

I am waiting with the most anxious expectation the decision of the great question—peace or war? Reports are hourly circulated on both sides, but nothing is known from any authority. I need not say, that the moment it is known, I will send it off.

I know no more of the East India business than you will see in the papers. I was so intent on this, that I forgot to ask Townshend to-day about it.

I shall most probably be with you before you can answer this, as the 5th is the day for the meeting. But if they should again prorogue the Parliament, and wish me to stay, supposing the point not decided, what shall I do?

Ever most affectionately yours, W. W. G.

Townshend and Conway have both been plaguing me about Murray, who wanted to raise a corps in the North. It seems he is an Irishman, with considerable connexions in the North. Talbot's inspection makes a figure in the papers.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

(Most Secret and Private.)

Pall Mall, Monday, Dec. 2nd, 1782.

My dear Brother,

I told you, in my last letter, that Lord Shelburne had thrown out to me the idea of a paragraph in the King's Speech on the subject of Ireland, and that I had applied to Townshend, that I might see it before it was decided upon. In consequence of this, I received, through him, a message from Lord Shelburne, desiring to see me this morning. I have just been with him. He made his excuses to me as soon as I came in, for having appointed me at a time when he should only be able to converse with me for a very short time, as unexpected business had occurred. He then took out the Speech, and read to me the sentence in question, which is nearly this: The liberal spirit of your measures respecting the commerce of Ireland, confirmed by the rest of your conduct towards her, meets with my full approbation and concurrence; and I should recommend to you a general revision of the trade laws of this kingdom on the same extended principles. I own this did not strike me as being sufficiently extensive. I mentioned the insertion of the word rights—commerce and rights—but he did not at all seem to give into it. He said that we were not ripe for that; that the best thing that could be done was that we should adhere exactly to the settlement; that it was a bond from which we ought in no instance to depart; and that a steady Government would enable us to stand to it in Ireland as well as here. Above all, he said he looked to the effects of a full confidence between you and himself, which union and concurrence would be more important for Government than any other point whatever—that it gave more strength than even abilities or weight. With this I closed in, seeing it in vain to push the other, and told him that the appearance of confidence and support here would, I was convinced, assist you more than even the adoption of any specific measure; that in the case of a peace, I did not doubt that you would be sufficiently strong to carry on your Government with ease, but that I could not answer for the event of a continuance of the war. He answered, that the situation of Ireland weighed very materially with him in his wishes for peace, and that, although he never wished to shift off responsibility, yet he trusted in your integrity and honour; that, if he found it necessary, he should be enabled to state that part of the subject from the best authority. To this I thought myself justified in answering, that most certainly you would never abandon a ground which you had already stated to him, and which every hour made clearer to you; and that such a consideration certainly ought to weigh with Government in making the peace.

He then went on to say, that he had in general no doubt but that you would find your Government easy and prosperous; he enumerated the advantages with which you will meet the Parliament in October—a settled ministry here, things arranged in Ireland, the Parliament fully canvassed, and possibly a peace. I said, that when I saw him before, I had stated the possibility of your being driven to meet the Parliament in the spring; that I had stated it as a possible evil; and that I wished to explain to him that the necessity of this would by no means be affected either way by the difference between an immediate dissolution, and that which must take place before the March assizes. To this he by no means agreed; as a dissolution late in February would, he said, by the time the elections were over, bring us far on towards the summer months. He then reverted to his opinion as to the probability of your having a smooth and easy Government. It was his idea he said, that real commotion never was produced but by real grievances. My answer was, that the people of Ireland did suffer real misery, which, as was frequently the case, they would impute to Government, however little founded such an idea would be. This, he said, would lead us at length into a disquisition on the state of Ireland, on which subject he intended, before I went, to have a long conversation with me, but that he was now too much pressed.

After this, I thought I could not, with any propriety, prolong my visit. Since I wrote the above, I have seen Townshend. He agrees perfectly in opinion with me, that the mention of the commerce, with so very general a reference to the constitutional part of the question, could produce no good effect in Ireland, and might be made an invidious use of. He threw out the idea of omitting the paragraph entirely; and most certainly, if Lord Shelburne sees, or thinks he sees, any objection to being more explicit on the subject, I know no necessity whatever for saying a word about it. It certainly will produce debate on the affairs of Ireland, which is much to be avoided; and in the form in which it now stands, or indeed in any into which it could be thrown, so as to form part of the King's Speech, it would be of no advantage to us in Ireland, whilst it would afford ground of cavil and objection to our enemies. In this idea, I have written to Lord Shelburne, to desire to see him again; but as he may possibly appoint me for to-morrow, and you must be impatient to hear from England, I shall not detain the messenger.

With respect to that cursed cause, I hardly know what to say: it must have set you very much afloat, particularly with the lawyers who are interested in the question. In my last letter, I threw out the idea of a bill in this country to prevent the receiving or hearing Irish causes in the English courts. I have shown to Townshend the draught of such a bill, which I enclose to you with this letter. I believe his disposition is most real and unaffected, to leave the management of the whole Irish business to you, and to support you honestly and fairly in whatever measures you adopt. But it is not difficult to see that the whole administration and business of Government roule sur bien un autre pivot. As far as one can separate Lord Shelburne's intentions from his verbiage and professions, I think I see a strong disposition to resist the least tendency towards any further concession, or even to the appearance of it. On the contrary, if any very good opportunity should offer itself, I should think him more inclined to lessen than to extend. He either has, or affects, an opinion very different from that which I hold out to him with respect to the difficulties of your Government, and exclaims even against the possibility of your being driven from your ground. I can't say that I think this situation between your official Minister and the real Premier quite pleasant, because it seems to me that the despatches of the one, however explicit, being all written without the concurrence of the Cabinet, do not pledge the opinions of the other, which are, after all, the only opinions which are of any consequence.

I believe I stated to you in my last the reason which Townshend gave to me, and which Lord Shelburne assigned to Jemmy, for not calling a Cabinet immediately on my arrival, namely, their unwillingness to meet them before they had news from Paris, because they had been hitherto unanimous, and hoped to meet Parliament so; and if they were called upon the subject of Ireland, nobody knows what other hare might be started there, however they might agree upon Irish affairs. You will certainly think the mode of keeping a Cabinet unanimous, by never meeting them at all, an excellent one; however, in the situation of things here, I did not think it would be decent in me to distress Government, especially as I really think the propriety of the dissolution at this moment depends much on the event of the business at Paris. I have therefore contented myself with an explicit assurance from Townshend, that when news of that arrives, which is now most anxiously expected every hour, a Cabinet shall be held, to go into the whole line of Irish business.

Townshend showed me his despatches on the subject of the embargo, and of this Irish cause, both of which the King has seen, but I believe, no one else. The idea of the resolutions not being proposed till your wish was known, was suggested to him by me, because, if you should be driven—and things certainly verge towards it—to any further concession, you will not be much assisted by those two resolutions standing on the journals in array against you. But I believe the attention of every one here will be so much employed by the great point of peace or war, that there will be very little room for Irish politics, either in the House of Commons or the House of Lords.

I asked Townshend, an hour ago, whether there was anything from Paris; and he told me explicitly that they knew nothing at all, but was in most anxious expectation. The Parliament certainly meets on Thursday. I think, from the style of their language, and particularly from Lord Shelburne's trying to make me pledge you to it, that they are confident of a peace; and certainly, if they have it not, their situation is very precarious, to say no more of it. If they do meet Parliament with a peace, I am persuaded they will stand their ground. The country gentlemen hold in general rather a friendly language than otherwise. I shall certainly now stay over Thursday; but after that, get back to you as soon as I can.

Lord Mahon has been with me, and is outrageous about the Duke of Leinster. He wanted me to engage that Government would give them land if the other offers failed; but I begged to decline.

I have received the enclosed from Talbot, and have also sent you my answer, which you will forward or not, as you think right.

Lord Nugent is out of all patience with you for not answering his letter. Adieu.

Believe me, Ever most affectionately yours, W. W. G.

I have not given you the words of the Speech exactly, but nearly. Yorke and Banks move in the House of Commons; Lord Carmarthen and —— in the House of Lords.

You will probably think it right to write to Lord Shelburne, stating the difficulties of your situation at full length; because I think his idea of ease and smoothness ought by no means to remain uncontradicted. If you do that, I should think it would not be amiss to say something about a peace, for he evidently meant that I should have pledged you to that, and to acknowledge his professions, which have been boundless and unlimited.

I should think it would be also an act of real justice to Townshend to say something to him about his conduct towards you, which I think as honourable and friendly as possible. If one could but join the power of the one with the integrity of the other!

What answer will you give about your stopping the English recruiting parties car l'on est un peu choque la-dessus?

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Dec. 5th, Eleven at Night.

My dear Brother,

In consequence of their having altered their minds about Ireland, I was summoned to give my opinion. I think the words as they stand now are sufficiently strong, and they passed to-night without the least animadversion: "The liberal principles adopted by you with respect to the rights and commerce of Ireland, do you the highest honour, and must, I trust, ensure that harmony which ought ever to subsist between the two kingdoms."

We have had no division to-night. The speakers, Lord N., Fox, Burke, Townshend and Pitt.

Lord N. uncommonly well, holding off from both sides. Fox and Pitt both worse than usual. The chief debate about peace. The giving up Gibraltar was thrown out by Banks, and strongly objected to by Lord N., Burke, and Fox.

Johnstone made an attack upon Lord Howe, which was as ill received as it deserved to be. I would have sent you a copy of the King's Speech, but it is so uncommonly long, that it is not out yet. It is utterly impossible to travel through the great variety of matter which it comprehends. Remarkably full house.

Bulkeley was in the House of Lords; says that Shelburne acquitted himself very well. Lord Stormont attacked him about the Independence. He defended it as the wish of the people. Lord Fitzgerald spoke but badly. No division there.

Ever yours, W. W. G.

Keith Stewart answered Johnstone, defending Lord Howe very warmly. Everybody who spoke after Johnstone reprobated him. Duke of Richmond attacked Lord Sandwich.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Saturday, Dec. 7th, 1782.

My dear Brother,

I received your packet late on Thursday night, or rather, I believe, early on Friday morning. As soon as I was up I sent the enclosed letter to Lord Shelburne and to Townshend. I received from Lord Shelburne an answer appointing me in an hour's time.

When I went there, after waiting a considerable time (which I can easily excuse when I reflect upon the business of this moment), I was shown into a room, where he was with Townshend. It is difficult for me to say whether I was more surprised or mortified at his telling me, as soon as I came in, that he could only see me for a minute or two. He then entered upon the subject of your letter, by saying that he had not read Mr. Townshend's despatches, but only your letter to himself and the bill which you enclosed to Townshend. With respect to the bill, he said nothing could be done without consulting the Chancellor and the other lawyers of the Cabinet; that I must see the Chancellor, and explain the business to him; that the rendering a judgment null might be objected to. I answered that I was persuaded that was the part on which you was least bent, and that you would be fully satisfied if the enacting clause went only to prevent any future decisions, provided the preamble expressed the principle. To this he said, that it was impossible to go on if everything of this sort made a necessity for new measures, and that when a ground was once taken, it ought to be stood to. My answer was, that your ground was very materially changed, and that this overturned the only reasoning upon which you had been able to go on at all, namely, the pledging your own personal faith, and the honour of Government here, that the repeal of the G. I. was considered as a renunciation on the part of Great Britain of all legislation and jurisdiction. He asked whether I meant external as well as internal? I said, undoubtedly. He said, that he had understood from your conversation before you went, "that you meant to make your stand upon the external legislation;" and for this he appealed to Townshend, who said he had understood the same. It was impossible for me to contradict this, as it referred to conversations to which I was no party. He said that he thought you was reasonable upon the subject of the dissolution, and that this other business was not to be taken up suddenly. I asked what then he wished me to do. He told me to wait upon the Chancellor. I objected that the question was not a legal one, but wholly political. I urged the consequences of delay. Still, however, I could get no answer from him, but only that I must go to the Chancellor; and at last he grew so impatient as to leave the room while I was talking, and to tell Townshend that he might find him in his (Lord Shelburne's) office. The whole conversation did not last above four or five minutes at the utmost. I turned to Townshend, and asked him if he thought it possible that the Government of Ireland could go on in this manner. He pressed me to go to the Chancellor, and said that he could tell me, en ami, that I should do more good there in three minutes than I could do elsewhere in as many hours.

By the way, I must say here, that by some inaccuracy I must have explained myself very ill to you about Townshend, who seems to me to have acted the most friendly and honest part towards you in the course of the whole business, and who has sacrificed his time to me for an hour or an hour and a half for several days; while during the fortnight I have now been here, I have not seen Lord Shelburne for twenty minutes in the whole.

I have been very particular in detailing the above conversation to you, because I think it opens two things of infinite importance to your personal comfort and your personal honour. I think it extremely plain that the object of Lord Shelburne is to gain time, and that let me press ever so eagerly, which I shall not fail to do, still I am not to expect any final answer till the negotiation is settled, and the peace, which they evidently look upon as certain, is secured and announced. What effect these delays may have in Ireland, and what appearance this state of uncertainty must bear to those who know the proposal you have made, you are best able to judge, but I know enough of it to be very much alarmed. But the second consideration affects me much more, as I think it affects your honour, and my own as involved with it. What I mean is this: I threw out to you in my former letters that Lord Shelburne appears to me much more disposed to narrow than to extend the rights and concessions yielded to Ireland by Great Britain. I think when you compare the evident reluctance he showed to agree to the resolutions first proposed; his telling me that he had thought of a paragraph in the King's Speech to do instead of them; his then showing me a paragraph relating merely to commercial advantages, and his telling me we were not ripe for the word rights; when you compare all this with his evident dislike to this bill, and with the expression stated above about external legislation, it is not very difficult to collect that he means to do nothing till we have peace, and when we have, he means, to use his own expression, to make the stand upon that point.

Possibly I may agree with him, that it might have been well for the general interest of the empire if that ground had originally been explained, decisively taken and maintained. But I am sure I know too well the situation of that country and of this, to think that it can now be held out without the most fatal consequences to both; and I think I know your feelings too well to imagine that you will suffer yourself to be made an instrument of deceiving any man or body of men whatever, still less a whole country, especially in contradiction to the language which you have invariably held, at least as far as I can recollect (ever since you accepted of your situation), both to people in Ireland and to Government here, that the repeal was a complete renunciation.

It is a singular pleasure to me to observe how exactly our ideas have hitherto corresponded since I left you; so that while you have been taking your measures in Ireland, I have been recommending the same to you from hence. If they should continue to do so in this instance, the line of conduct which I apprehend would be proper for us to adopt on our different posts is this. I am to see the Chancellor to-morrow, and immediately upon leaving him mean to write to Lord Shelburne, pressing him again most eagerly to allow me an opportunity of stating to him at length what I have in commission to say to him from you. If he should comply, I will then go into the whole state of Ireland; will mention to him the credit which ought to be given to representations proceeding from you, in preference to those of interested individuals; will enlarge upon the necessity of decision; and will press that a Cabinet may be held in performance of Townshend's promise to me. In the meantime, I should think you would do well to write a letter to Townshend, stating your ideas upon the necessity of good faith, and the impossibility of resistance, even upon the ground of simple repeal, still more upon the more narrow one of external legislation; and desiring an explicit answer from the Cabinet on these points. This, if you would entrust me with it, I would suppress in case the Cabinet should have met and come to any satisfactory decision; and if not, I would deliver it to Townshend, with every personal expression to him of regard, &c., &c.

The advantages which I propose by this conduct, and the mode of reasoning upon which I support it, are as follows: In the first place, if it is really their intention to reserve the external legislation, the sooner you know it, and are able to wash your hands of it completely, by returning to England, the more popular you will be in Ireland, and the better ground you will have here, both to your own conscience, and as a man who may be called upon to defend his conduct. You will observe that I take it for granted you agree with me as to the utter impossibility of ever exercising such a right, and the impolicy as well as bad faith of reserving it, to become, like the tea-duty, a ground for contest and ill-blood; without the possibility of advantage. Lord Shelburne seems to imagine that by a peace he should be able to enforce it; you know the contrary, and that the hearts and voices, and even hands, not of the Volunteers only, but of the people, and even of Parliament, would be against it. And with what face, supposing the thing in itself practicable and honest, could we maintain that ground, after having repeatedly stated the contrary, and pledged ourselves to it in resolutions, and now in a bill offered under your recommendation for the English Parliament? In this event, therefore, I think that by an immediate resignation you will have satisfied your own feelings, and at the same time found an honourable solution to a very unpleasant situation—unpleasant from the situation of things there, and possibly not less so from the complexion of affairs here.

If, on the other hand, this measure drives them into an immediate acquiescence with your proposals, you will certainly stand in a much pleasanter situation in Ireland, especially as a peace will give you a fair ground for dissolving the Fencibles, if you think proper, without ever coming to Parliament to vote money for them. The advantages which we shall have from putting an end to this almost intolerable scene of delay and temporizing are obvious; and if the measure comes from Townshend, and is seconded by me, as I shall propose, it will give you all the credit of the adherence to good faith, &c., &c., instead of its being forced upon Government, as it will otherwise be, by Lord Beauchamp, or Commodore Johnstone, or any person disposed to do mischief.

I have said that O. l Fo2c TolB 3Fo3 the complexion of affairs here makes

evident intention it more unpleasant. Lord Shelburne's c21bc93 193c931m9 is

make cyphers colleagues to 70Ic aw6FckT of his amddcol2ct. Rayneval's arrival at his

not known house at eight in the morning was 9m3 I9ms9 to Townshend

till twelve, nor to others till after four. 3ldd 3scd2c, 9mk 3m any of the m3Fckt 3ldd oE3ck Em2k.

They be much pleased, they mean 3fcw cannot hc 72af 6dcotch, but sill it is imagined 3fcw 7co9

to remain. 3m k370l9. I have had no opportunity of speaking about the

Vice-Treasurership since your last letter; I had spoke before.

will observe Barre's place is kept You sldd mhtck2c Hokkct 6doac lt also Ic63 open.[1]

Quorsum haec tendunt, God only knows. Ever yours, W. W. G.

[Footnote 1: Portions of numerous letters in the correspondence contained in these volumes are written in cypher. The above passage is given merely as a specimen, which will be sufficient to show the character of the cypher.]

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Sunday, Dec. 15th, 1782.

My dear Brother,

I am just returned from Lord Shelburne's. He appointed me yesterday to be with him this morning, and I have had a pretty long conversation with him on the subject of Ireland. But it was for the most part so very general, that it is not easy to reduce it to writing.

I began by stating under two distinct heads the original object of my being sent here, and what had since happened. First, that I had been commissioned to explain the grounds on which you had wished to stand against further concessions, your reasons for imagining it doubtful whether that ground could be maintained, and your certain conviction that it could be done only by an immediate dissolution of Parliament. The second point I said was, that, by what had since happened, you apprehended that something further was made necessary, and this was the more evident from the manner in which every one had taken up the business in Ireland.

These two points, of course, led us into a very wide field of conversation. As to the dissolution, I said you certainly would not press the Ministry for any more on the subject, than that, even with a peace, and a remedy to the business of the King's Bench, it should not be delayed beyond the end of January. The great object, he said, was at all events not to meet till October. My answer was, that to you, who were personally to meet the difficulties of an earlier meeting, they certainly would appear quite as strong as they could to him sitting at a distance and speculating upon them. It was therefore by no means a thing to be wished by you, but an evil which circumstances might render necessary. This led me to a mention of several causes of discontent which might arise or be sought for, and which could only be prevented by the Irish Parliament; such as an infringement, for instance, of the East India monopoly. We went, at different periods of the conversation, a good deal into this business. He threw out an idea, which he said had been often mentioned, and for which a foundation was certainly laid in the last resolution of the English Houses on Irish affairs, if we chose to pursue it. This was the fixing, by a sort of treaty, a commercial system between the two countries, and a proportionable contribution to be paid by Ireland for the general protection of the empire.

When I mentioned the objection to this, founded on the impossibility that Ireland could in her present situation contribute such a quota as would hereafter be even infinitely too small for her share, he answered it by stating the possibility of having a tax on some particular article or description of articles applicable to this purpose, which might be so fixed as to be small at present, very small if necessary, but which might increase with the wealth and commerce of Ireland. On this idea of a settlement, our conversation dwelt a good deal. I expressed my opinion that it would be, in many points of view, a measure of dignity and weight, and particularly advantageous to both countries, as it would leave no ground of contest unexplained. But at the same time I thought the present moment unfavourable for such a step, because it ought not to be taken till Government in Ireland recovered its energy; otherwise, I stated that the wildest idea that could be broached in a newspaper would be adopted by those in whom the real Government of the country resides at the present moment; that, till the Volunteers have in some degree subsided, your Government could only subsist by expedients, painful as such an idea must be to your feelings. I stated also, that if this was to be held out to the country as the satisfaction and security to which they were to look, it would set all their heads afloat forming systems of trade and government; and that it would make the spring meeting absolutely necessary, from the impatience it would excite and the necessity of its being done by Parliament.

From this we went into the present situation of your Government. Upon this he desired to explain himself, and that I would state to you that he was inclined to think, not that he thought, your Government would go on more easily there than you expected. He alluded to De Retz's maxim: "Le peuple ne se souleve jamais que quand on l'opprime." To the truth of this I agreed perfectly, but said that the people there are really oppressed, and miserable to a degree I had not at all conceived till I went into the country. That nothing was more usual than for the people to mistake the cause of grievances which they really feel, and that this I apprehended to be the case there. In that case, he said, the remedy was at hand; for that an extended commerce and the wisdom of internal regulations, would relieve the evil, and be a pleasant task to your Government. I answered that such remedies must be gradual, while the situation of Ireland was pressing at this moment; and that perhaps nothing had contributed more to the discontents now prevalent, than the foolish expectations of wealth to be poured like a torrent into the country by a free trade. To this he agreed, but said that laws might certainly be devised by which such remedies might be brought forward and hastened. Then he went into the nature of absentee laws. Direct absentee taxes were, he said, highly objectionable, but many things might be thought of which would produce the effect so reasonably to be wished, that the money arising from land in Ireland should not be spent elsewhere. All methods to raise the value of that land would operate to that effect; because, when the person residing in England saw the means of getting an equivalent, he would certainly prefer an estate at his own door to one in Ireland. Still, however, this would be gradual.

With respect to the Volunteer force, he apprehended less embarrassment from them, because he could not believe that five thousand of them would ever bring themselves to march ten miles together. I said, perhaps not, but that they had each the means of resisting the execution of any law they disliked in their own places of residence; whilst your whole army did not amount, without the Provincials, to six thousand men. And in time of peace, the Provincials were to be disbanded, and only twelve thousand men could be brought back upon the establishment. He asked whether the Provincials could not be made permanent. I said, I apprehended not, and that possibly the attempt would not be wise; for that, although you had, by the most determined perseverance and by an unremitted firmness, carried the point with respect to their being raised, yet I thought that would be sufficient to show the steadiness of Government, without seeking unnecessary grounds of discontent.

There were many other general heads of Irish Government touched upon in the course of the conversation, which I do not now remember. He spoke to the reports about the situation of English Government. I never heard any man, in the whole course of my life, affirm any one thing more distinctly, positively, and unequivocally, than he did, when he told me that Government were upon a sure foundation here. He said that I was too wise to expect him to explain to me upon what grounds he said this, but that it was upon sure grounds; that there was a moral certainty, and as a rational man he proceeded upon it. This language is the more extraordinary, because the opinion of the world in general, I might say of almost every man in London, is directly the reverse. Either, therefore, Lord Shelburne is (not a dissembler, but) the most abandoned and direct liar upon the face of the earth, or he is deceived himself, too grossly to be imagined, or the whole world besides is deceived. Which of these is the case, time will show, and that only; but I cannot bring myself to imagine that the first is. That he wishes you should believe him secure, I can easily imagine, and that he wishes it very strongly; but that he should therefore be induced to pledge himself to so direct a falsehood, which he must know it was my business to repeat to you, and yours to act upon, and which the event of a few weeks must demonstrate to be false if it is so, exceeds my utmost power of belief. That the Duke of Richmond thinks as Lord Shelburne has expressed himself to me, is, I apprehend, most probable, from the very strong compliments he paid him and the flattering language he held to him in the House of Lords on Friday. But this is mere conjecture. What is certain, on the other hand, is that the explanation given by him in the House of Lords of the American treaty does not tally with that of Pitt, Townshend and Conway in the House of Commons, to which nevertheless the three last have positively pledged their faith and honour, that the Cabinet has been postponed because Lord Shelburne was afraid to meet them, and that the report of the day is that Lord Shelburne was outvoted there upon the question of Gibraltar.

After we had gone over a great deal of conversation on these subjects for above an hour and a half, he said that we seemed to agree about all the points on which we had touched. I then mentioned the two main objects—the Dissolution, and the Bill of Satisfaction. To the dissolution, he said he imagined no difficulty would be made to-day in the Cabinet which was to be held; as to the other point, he saw much more objection. It cut up the principle on which our stand had been made. People were not ripe in England to go into the whole question again. The moment a bill of that sort was proposed in the House of Commons, every man would have to give his opinion on the effect of the repeal, on the legal question, and on the right of internal and external legislation. There never was a debate on Irish questions in England that was not misrepresented; and this, together with the acknowledgment of the principle of the insufficiency of what was done last year, would put Mr. Flood on excellent ground. To many of these objections I could not but subscribe, for they strike me very strongly. I wished to know from him his idea on the external legislation. He said he had understood you, when you left England, that you was determined never to cede that. I said, that as his Lordship referred to conversations to which I was no party, I could only say that I had understood you very differently. The distinction between external and internal, he said, was a bad one, as applied to Ireland. It was applied by Fox, who took it from Lord Chatham, by whom it had been adopted, for want of a better expression, in the case of America. I said, the distinction I made was a clear one—that England could, in her own ports, restrain as she pleased the commerce of Ireland; but that it was not in the power of Government, after what had been done (whether wisely or not), to enforce any English Act which was to be executed in Ireland. He said, that this brought us back to the idea of a settlement; and that he should be curious, and indeed it was necessary to the subject, to know what questions about English Acts concerning trade, and what other commercial points would come into discussion in such a settlement. At the same time, he said, the subject was one of those which required conversing with people of information, and which, nevertheless, if any one was consulted upon it, would set the heads of every one afloat. However, he wished I would turn my thoughts to it, and let him see the principal points. I then pressed him again upon the head of your Bill; I thought it right to say that I was satisfied on every other head, but that this pressed strongly on my mind. All I wished was, that he would allow me to state to you the difficulties, such as he had mentioned them; but at the same time, to say, that they were overbalanced by an absolute necessity. He said, that he would not suppose that they could be overbalanced.

While I write this, I receive your despatches of the 12th instant. I have immediately enclosed your letter to Townshend, with one from myself, of which I send you a copy, and wait his answer with impatience. I was going on, when I was interrupted by your letters, to state to you, that my conversation with Lord Shelburne closed with his saying that the difficulties were capital, and that he could not believe that they could be overbalanced. I then observed, that a Cabinet was, I understood, to be held to-day. He said yes, and at eleven, and that it was then half-past ten, and therefore I must excuse him. As I had been there above an hour and a half, I could not with any propriety stay any longer.

According to Townshend's directions to me last night, I staid at home the whole morning, under the idea that I was to be sent for, as it was so directed in the King's approbation for the Cabinet being held, which Townshend showed me. Why this was not done, whether the Cabinet has not been held, or whether Lord Shelburne thought he had received information enough for all, I cannot pretend to say. It is certainly unnecessary for me to observe, that the whole of this magnificent idea about a settlement was most probably intended to draw your attention off from the Bill you have proposed. I could do no otherwise than acquiesce in sending it over to you, as I had already stated my belief, confirmed so fully by your authority, that your proposal was necessary, and to the adoption of it, on this ground, I meant, if I could, to have pledged him by my last question; and although he did not accede to what I then asked, yet I think I should not have been justified in not agreeing to state to you his objections—which certainly have their weight, especially as he proposed an expedient in the room of yours, though insufficient and improper for the reasons which, as I told you above, I mentioned to him. I forgot to state in its proper place that I reminded him of the danger which was almost inevitable, that some enemy to Government would take the business up, if not immediately done by Ministry themselves.

Half-past Eleven, P.M.

I have just received the enclosed answer from Townshend; and though it contains nothing, yet I cannot but feel too much for your impatience to delay till Wednesday night the acknowledging your despatches, and the assuring you that there shall be no remissness whatever on my part to follow up this business as much as possible, and to press it forward in this strange scene of procrastination. Nothing can make me happier than your approbation of my conduct, and your kind disposition to trust so much to that most unfeigned affection with which I am,

My dearest brother, Ever yours, W. W. Grenville.

P.S.—I mean to-morrow to write to Lord Shelburne, stating that you have sent over a fresh despatch to Mr. Townshend, and referring him to that for the absolute necessity of adopting your proposal, which still leaves room for his settlement, if it is thought proper and expedient. The one will remove the present difficulty, the other prevent the rise of any fresh source of discord. But how far the latter can or ought at this time to be taken up, is with me very doubtful. If I get on Wednesday such an answer as I wish, you shall see me very soon.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Dec. 20th, 1782.

My dear Brother,

I am still unable to send you any final answer, although I must confess that I think we approach much nearer to it than we have done yet.

The Cabinet met yesterday. As I was not quite satisfied with what I had said the day before on the subject of recognition, and of the preamble, I thought it better to put a few words to paper, and to send them to Townshend. I enclose a copy of that paper and the letter which went with it. They were delivered to Townshend during the Cabinet. I heard nothing at all from him last night.

This morning I was surprised and shocked—and I cannot say which I was most—by seeing in the papers the conversation which had passed in the House on the subject of Ireland, of which Fitzpatrick, though it was evidently a concerted thing, had not thought proper to give me any notice whatever. I immediately resolved to say something about it in the House to-day. Accordingly I sent a note to Townshend, desiring to be allowed to wait upon him in the morning. I told him my intention, and questioned him upon the subject of the Cabinet. He showed me, what (he said) was not properly a minute, but a memorandum taken there. I could not copy that, but as soon as I came home I endeavoured to recollect it, and believe the enclosed is very near the words. This I said immediately was only losing time, and that it was very useless for him to trouble himself with writing such a despatch, as I would take upon myself to make your answer to the two points it contained: First, that the bill you had sent over was drawn expressly to avoid the question of what had been the right, as it declared only what is now the right; and that if there was to be any reservation as to its being now the right, I would only say that this would be the most disgraced country in Europe. As to the other point, I knew perfectly that every step you had taken was with a full knowledge of the circumstances of the case, because I had sent them over to you myself a few days after my arrival in London. That being the case, Townshend said he would not write, but state these things to the Cabinet, which was to meet again either to-morrow or the next day; I do not positively remember which. I then stated to him what I meant to say to-day, in which he acquiesced. He told me General Conway wished to see me, as he thought that he had struck out an idea which might answer effectually; and he showed me a few words which were to explain this idea. They were in the form of a resolution, and went only to say, that Great Britain had, by the repeal, renounced all thoughts of exercising any right to make laws to bind Ireland. You may easily guess the answer which I made to this.

From Townshend I went to Conway. Him I found very strongly impressed with Lord B.'s ideas about renunciation, complete satisfaction, and the effect of a declaratory law, and of the repeal of it, which, he said, left things as they were before. I combated all this very strongly, and at last got him to acquiesce in the idea of a recognition, provided that the words were such as not to imply that England never had the right. I said that I conceived, as this was merely a point of honour, and not a reservation of anything to be exercised in future, that all that Government could desire was to use such words as should not necessarily imply that the right never existed; that this was expressly the description of the words in your bill, which were so drawn as to go only to present right, and yet so as to be very satisfactory to Ireland. In all this he acquiesced, and then wished that some notice might be given in the "Dublin Gazette;" that the cause had only been heard because it was pending before; and that after the holidays, something satisfactory would be done. I answered as to the first, that after the opinion delivered privately by the Chancellor, and in the House of Commons, as I had understood, by the Attorney-General, that even a new cause could not be rejected by the Judges, such a ground would be a very bad one to take. To this he agreed. As to the other point, I said that it was my intention to state it in the House of Commons, which I apprehended would answer nearly the same purpose. He assented to this also, and so I left him. I then went to the House of Commons; there I saw Townshend, and asked him what day the Parliament was to meet after Christmas, because I thought it would give more solemnity if I gave notice for a particular day, and moved for a call on that day; and that the earlier it was, the better it would be. He said they met on the 21st. I proposed that day, and he agreed. Hartley rose at the same time with me, and being called to, moved for a call on the 22nd. I then got up and said, that if I had not been prevented, I was going to have moved it for the 21st; but I would now trouble the House only to give notice that on that day a very important business would be brought before them on the subject of Ireland; that I had understood that a conversation had taken place the day before on that subject; that I lamented exceedingly that I had been so unfortunate as to be absent at that time, because if I had been there I should have thought it my duty to have stated to the House, in justice to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, that the business in question had been submitted by you to the consideration of Government, and had been in the contemplation of the King's servants a considerable time before any notice had been given of a motion to be made upon it by a noble Lord in the House; that I wished further, in justice to you, to say, that "there was no man in either kingdom more decidedly of opinion that the good faith of Great Britain was solemnly pledged to Ireland, by the repeal of the 6th Geo. I., in the last sessions, upon the avowed and explained principle of putting an end to every idea of legislation and jurisdiction over that kingdom; and that there was no man more eagerly desirous than you, that that faith so pledged, and upon that principle so explained, should be religiously adhered to and maintained, as the national honour and national interest required it should be maintained, sacred and inviolable."

This brought up Lord Beauchamp, who began by assuring and protesting that the part he had taken was upon the best motives, &c., &c. He then went into the question of the writ of error, how far it could have been rejected, and how useless it was in Ireland, &c., &c. He then said that it was a point of parliamentary fairness, that when one person had given notice of a motion, it should be left to him, and not taken up in the meantime by any other person.

I answered, that as to the noble Lord's motives, he must do me the justice to say that I had been perfectly silent on that head. That with respect to the question about the writ of error, neither did I conceive this to be a proper time for that discussion. But that with regard to parliamentary fairness, I did not imagine that His Majesty's Government would think themselves justified in postponing so important a question, and which would have been brought on before the recess if there had been time, merely because the noble Lord meant to move something about it at a distant day.

This ended the conversation on the subject; except that I added that the noble Lord had misunderstood me when he imagined that I was to move the business on the 21st, as I apprehended that it was the intention of Government to do it.

I cannot help thinking that by this, which has been done entirely without the concurrence or even knowledge of Lord Shelburne, we have gained a great point. By giving such a notice, speaking from the Treasury bench in the hearing of, and backed by Townshend and Pitt, I have most undoubtedly pledged Government to do something on that day. If that is short of your wishes, see in what a situation they stand; if not, you are landed. In the meantime the notice and the explicit declaration made in your name must surely be infinitely useful to you in Ireland.

I wait with great impatience the final decision of the Cabinet. Conway's expression was, that he conceived there was no objection to any preamble which had not a retrospect. If we can convince them that ours has none, or frame one not quite so strong, but very near it, think what ground we stand upon, in having obtained something stronger and more advantageous to the interests of Ireland than any renunciation whatever. "For this we must thank" Mansfield, who has certainly extricated us from a scene of considerable difficulty.

If it could be done without great inconvenience to you in Ireland, I should be very desirous either of coming back here, in case I get away soon enough, or if not, of staying here till the 21st; because I am convinced my presence here is of infinite moment, to prevent their being frightened at the time into any weakening of the preamble, and to goad them on to do something. For you see, even in this case, the objection was not so much to the taking any particular step, as to the doing anything at all; and when forced to that, and driven from their intrenchments of indolence and delay, you see how much they are inclined to take the measures you wish. But this shall be decided by your wishes on the subject, unless I should set out before I receive them.

I say nothing of the dissolution; I have not, however, lost sight of that, and will press it to-morrow; but I thought the other the more important point, having so fine an opening, which I trust you will think I have not neglected.

D'Ivernois is come. He was with me this morning, and comes again to-morrow. He says the business goes on at Geneva far better than he could have expected, owing to the Constitution which the mediating powers have given them, which appears truly, what he states it, worse than that of Venice.

Believe me, my dear brother, Ever most affectionately yours, W. W. G.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Dec. 23rd, 1782.

My dear Brother,

When I wrote last to you, I expressed considerable hopes that this tedious business was drawing near to a conclusion, and that Government here would at last consent to grant the happiness and peace of Great Britain and Ireland, to solicitations that I should have been ashamed to have employed for any private object, however near to me. These hopes are, I must confess, weakened by my conversation of this morning with Townshend. I can plainly see that he is himself personally disposed to comply with your wishes. I can as plainly see that a greater and more powerful minister sets himself against them.

Dec. 24th, 1782.

So far I had written yesterday, when I resolved to delay writing further to you till to-day, on account of the promise which Townshend gave me that he would see Lord Shelburne last night, and press him upon the subject.

I have been with Townshend again this morning, and yet have nothing like a decided answer to give you. He told me that Thurlow made the most difficulty, but that Dunning seems to be entirely with us. Yesterday he said that Shelburne talked much of the advantages of holding high language. What the tenor of Conway's language was, I have stated to you before. Of the rest I know nothing. I own I am rather in doubt whether Lord Shelburne acts upon a system of resuming, or only of gaining time; neither of them is very pleasant or flattering to you.

Townshend appears to me to be most heartily and sincerely with you; nothing can be more explicit than his language was to that point. He complained of irresponsible Cabinet Ministers, and seemed to throw it upon that. I then stated your impatience, what you must feel, and asked how you could go on? I took out of my pocket your three letters to me, of the 12th and 14th instant, and read him such extracts as I thought would express your opinion and your impatience, and would pretty strongly imply though not express your determination upon the subject of resigning. He took the hint, and said that he could not wonder at any resolution you might take, and that he had told the Cabinet so. To this I answered, that it was right for me not to conceal from him (though I did not mean it as a formal declaration), that you certainly would not stay a moment there, if you found the proposal of a Bill of recognition either negatived or put off longer. He repeated that he could not wonder at it. He then charged me with a commission to write to you this evening, and to say that although nothing was yet done, he would labour to the utmost of his power that your wishes should be complied with, and that he hoped to bring the business to a conclusion in a very few days; that in the meantime he thought that his writing an official despatch, which should not be explicit, would be by no means pleasant to you. In this I agreed most fully.

The difficulty, he told me, lay in bringing them to think of anything but the peace, by which you see that business is still en train.

This consideration makes me less eager than I should otherwise be to cut the matter short. I continue to think, that if they are sufficiently pressed, you will carry your point; because I am fully persuaded they will not push you to the wall. In the meantime they feel the situation into which the notice for the House of Commons has thrown them; for Townshend expressed his satisfaction at it to-day, and said it lay a necessity on Government to do something.

While I am writing this, I receive your letters of the 21st. The despatch will, I think, have a good effect in pressing the thing forward, and assisting the exertions which I sincerely believe Townshend will make. At the same time, as it must now be the 27th at soonest before you can receive this letter, which leaves everything exactly where my last despatches to you did, I should think upon the receipt of it you would do well to write a letter to Townshend, rather demanding than requesting an immediate answer.

What I mean is (if you should approve of the idea), that you should say, "that after having so repeatedly stated the grounds of your proposal, to which you can now add nothing," (because any reasoning of yours brings on more discussion) "except that every day gives fresh force to them, you have nothing left but to request, as your situation entitles you to do, that you may at last have an immediate and explicit answer, in order that on the one hand you may not disgrace your personal honour and the faith of Great Britain by continuing to pledge them to assurances which are not to be performed, nor on the other hand appear by remaining in your situation without a favourable answer, to countenance a system which your own mind informs you to be at once unjust and impracticable." If you think the expressions too strong, or not sufficiently so, you will weaken or aggravate them; but I am very impatient to receive some such letter, which shall not enter into reasons or discussion on a subject so completely exhausted, but shall manifest your own intention, which I am convinced will operate more strongly than all the argument in the world.

You will perhaps say that I have already in my possession such a paper. But I must own I feel great difficulty in fixing the exact moment when to make use of it, and when to say that I can no longer in justice to you give credit to assurances of an immediate determination so often repeated and so often found fallacious. With you, who have received none such, there is no such difficulty. Besides, the letter in my hands can only operate as an actual resignation on your behalf, and authorized by you; whereas the letter from you, which I propose, would operate as a threat, and by that means prevent, I believe, the event itself; or if not, it would at least convince your feelings, as well as mine, most unequivocally of the absolute necessity for taking such a measure, as the only one by which you could preserve either integrity of character or uprightness of conduct. Such a letter might, if the winds do not prevent it, be here in a week from this day; and before that time I am most thoroughly convinced I shall receive not a single word further than I have already. With such a letter to deliver to Townshend, I should think myself authorized to demand a Cabinet; or if I could not obtain that, to make use of your former letter, and desire from you that I might see the King, to state to him your sense of the impracticability of such a system, and of the certainty that Government will be compelled in October to make concessions without gaining any advantage by them, infinitely greater than what would in January conciliate the affections of all Ireland.

One way or other, this business does most certainly draw to a conclusion. I allow, by this proposal, one week more for them to take their resolution. If they delay it beyond that, it is in effect the most mortifying and the most insulting way of refusing it that they could have adopted; and as such I think you would do right to state it in your letter. But whichever way it terminates, I think we shall derive the greatest advantage from Townshend's having authorized me to promise that on the 21st something should be done in the English House of Commons, and having sat by and acquiesced in my saying that that something would, I apprehended, be brought forward by Government. If it is not, I think I need not say what a situation they stand in; and what ours will be—how much better than if nothing had been said. On the other hand, if they do authorize me to bring forward, or bring forward themselves, on that day, a satisfactory Bill, we shall derive much more advantage to Government from having given an early notice of it, and much more personal credit from its coming through my mouth from you, than if it had been done only by the Minister, and kept back till the 21st.

I have had no communication with Lord Shelburne, nor have I either seen or heard from him since I spoke in the House of Commons. I mean, however, to-morrow to write to him on the strength of having received fresh despatches from you, and to press him in the strongest manner, that the Bill to be proposed on the 21st, may be such as will satisfy your wishes by satisfying the people of Ireland. What the new reason for delay will be, God knows. In the meantime is it not inconceivable that a man will hazard so much, in every sense of the word, so much credit as a Minister, so much in point of character, and so much in point of weight and support to his administration, without its being possible for one to discover any one object under Heaven which he is to gain by the delay? Possibly such a letter as I wish from you may succeed in bringing him to his senses; if not, I am sure the sooner your hands are washed of it the better; for if the rest of your administration in Ireland is to go on in the same manner, and you are to be left for months together without knowing whether Government here will expressly support or expressly contradict you, and all this only that they may gain time, without having anything further to gain, such a situation is neither suited for such tempers as we have, nor for such characters as I hope we shall ever preserve together.

The real grievance seems to be, what did hang as a dead weight upon the last administration till it pulled it down, and what must hang as the same dead weight upon this—I mean a Cabinet of eleven. If these are disunited, there are not wanting, even among themselves, men to publish it to the world; and how is it possible that they should be otherwise, except by the means of that delightful expedient which I stated to you once before, and which was again alluded to in yesterday's conversation. I should hope, however, that the appearance of your resolution will put an end to this scene of procrastination, disgraceful to you and dangerous to the country; if it does not, I am sure the resolution itself is most absolutely necessary to vindicate us to ourselves, as well as to others, from the consequences which we both foresee.

In the meantime, my dear brother, I cannot close this letter without expressing to you the extreme pleasure and satisfaction which I feel when, after having confided so much to my discretion, you express yourself satisfied that, however unsuccessful I may have been, the failure of my endeavours to procure this long-expected answer has not been owing to any want of zeal or judgment in me, but to those to whom the consequences are really to be imputed, and who have on that account already made themselves most deeply responsible both to God and their country.